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First and foremost, GW has a new rumour control policy.
Faeit 212: Games Workshop New Rumor Control Policy
While I cannot be sure this has anything to do with the outraged responses at Finecast, it doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.
Secondly, the web team has decided to make a statement concerning the negative responses:
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I am right 94% of the time, why worry about the other 3%.
Wow, there is a lot of hate being directed at GW right now. The price increases are unpopular, obviously, but this whole limiting international sales seems absurd, as does the silencing rumors.
GW has managed to do things that I just can’t even believe. Across all the games I have played and companies I have supported, none of them wow me like old GW. It has an obnoxiously large fan-base that can be found in all corners the internet, and are a very LOUD fan base.
Every website/player basically sits there and froths at the mouth for rumours to fuel their desire to buy: GW is putting a stop to that.
Every website/player ask for cheaper minis so they can actually afford the game:
GW raises the prices twice. (Sadly, I am starting to see Forge World as a “cheap alternative.” Now that is a stretch.) I can’t even get any of my newer nerd friends into warhammer anything because the prices are just too high.
Every website/ player asks for this fluff/unit/fluff unit or this older aspect they love to return to their army when its new release comes out:
GW lets Matt Ward happen. Or basically gives you a White Dwarf codex instead of a real because they can’t be bothered to give your army a real codex (I am talking about you Sisters of Battle.)
I mostly say this as a butt-hurt =I= player who no longer gets a “Daemonhunters” codex and now gets a “Grey Knight” codex with tacked-on =I= forces. And in Canadian $40 gets me 5 Grey Knights, and Henchmen war band armies get treated to an all metal range (excluding the conversion from products from other lines...)
Without exaggeration (that facebook link is a prime example) hundreds of people are complaining across a hundreds websites about a hundred things GW. As if they somehow missed this, or actually wished the whip the fan base into a Khorne-like frenzy, every single release GW puts out now, I find the prices get higher, for fewer minis, and the armies gain/loose appeal (attracting new fans and loosing old.) There White Dwarf became “Buy these paints/minis. Then buy more Space Marines.”
Then in this interwebz outcry by (more or less) the entire fanbase, GW responds by putting up Rumor Control? Fun times ahead. Its so weird to watch a company just outright anger their vast fanbase/lifeblood/funds and then set goals to make it worse.
Yeah, obviously by switching to resin they didn't need to buy new equipment for casting and hire people to adapt old equipment. It's a completely cost-free change. Obviously. And it's not like materials costs can go up, or that plastic is a petroleum-based product subject to the global crude prices, or that GW has massively more overhead in the form of stores and retail employees than most competing game companies.
As for the increased rumor control, I honestly think they're at a sweet spot right now, and extra control is just counterproductive.
And as for Matt Ward, he's just the communities favorite whipping boy. He's no worse than any other codex/army book writer they've got, and better than some. (I mean look at the Skaven Army Book. It's Errata section of the FAQ is FOUR AND A HALF PAGES, then another three and a half pages of FAQ. Ward's Daemons of Chaos? One page of Errata, three pages of FAQ. Phil Kelly's Space Wolf Codex? Two six-page Errata/FAQ within a week of release, the combined release and size total of both Ward's Blood Angels and Space Marines codecies FAQ)
Last edited by Stradius; May 20th, 2011 at 03:53.
"The sergeant major asked me what my job is. I told him it's to do what I am told. He gave me a medal. I like the Imperial Guard."
"Innocentia Probat Nihil"
My issue with all this GW hate-rage is that it seems to me like a lot of it is being thrown out of proportion. No, I'm not saying "Yah! Higher prices, thanks G-dub!". I'm simply saying that the millions of teenagers baying for blood over the internet over a lot of things I am yet to see implemented/to be proven as FACT(!) seems like the worlds just gone a little mad. I am a regular at a GW store, I'm friends with the staff there both in and out of the hobby, we often chat about things (No, I'm not given rumours or anything, we just talk about new releases), and I can tell you that if you simply go and talk to a person about it, rather than reading the poorly written posts online... You'll be a lot less cynical for it.
Things I've heard over internet (Ever-reliable and truthful that it is):
Metal is being ditched and replaced with resin. There will be price increases of apparently 5-25%. Yes, they're being redone (was predicted after SoB phase-out). Price changes are shown. Fact. Do I know of the quality of resins, I've seen some Forgeworld vehicles, but nothing that required heaps of detail, so no. But GW has surpassed itself, again and again with the quality of its work, some of the finest in the world and it just keeps on getting better. As a company, it's always pushed itself to be the best, the best artists, sculptors and painters. And you know what, the models will stay that way. I've heard that the cost increase will make up for the purchasing of new equipment since there's little they can do about. Okay, fair enough I guess. Will GW lower prices down the track when they're recovered from the new purchases. Probably not. If they did, it'd be awesome and they'd get heaps of love from hobbyists (might even tempt some to return, with them turning over a new leaf, etc). If they don't, a part of me would like to think they hold off the next price rise (Yes, there will be more price rises. It's called inflation. Love it, loathe it) for a while. I'm going to minimise speculation, so we'll have to wait and see.
GW is stopping independent stockists outside of Europe. Okay, so apparently GW is cracking down on online distributors. I think this is fine, I have always bought my models at the store, where I can actually talk to a human being, have a conversation about the hobby I love, paint/model in a friendly environment. Now, I'm not saying that people who buy online dislike these things, but since they also care about their wallets as well, they're inadvertently ruining this. Websites might be cheaper, and you can argue that the money goes back to GW. Yes. But that money isn't coming through stores. GW feels that the stores aren't worth having. Stores close. Stores closed? Less community, less tournaments, less friends, less advice from GW staff. How are people introduced into the hobby? Usually friends, but where how did those friends start? At a GW store. How are people supposed to get into the hobby if there's no support structure or stores? Less players = less money. Company withers and dies. There is no more warhammer. The models you bought at a slightly cheaper price are now useless. You don't just suffer, so do the loyal people who pay full price. Selfishness leads to this. Obviously, this isn't as dire a situation as I may have made it sound, but that lost profit is likely adding pressure for more price rises. Think you're saving yourself some money? Great, now have others suffer because you're a selfish git and feel that you are entitled to these things over others. GW is simply centralising its hobbyists around stores, and instead of others profiting on their behalf, it's the parent company. Hopefully this will lead to some positive changes in the company.
GW is no longer informing hobbyists of new releases through emails and such, new releases will be revealed on the back pages of WD. Subscribers will of course get these WD's a week or so before everyone else. "OMG I has to get subscription to know the things". Walk into a GW store and just flick through, looking at what's inside. Oh, look a backpage, telling you of what's on next month! No fuss. That subscribers will have this information first is fair in my mind, they're subscribers! Loyal, paying customers who support the niche-market business hit by financial crisis... What do you know, they're benefiting from loyalty. I don't think that rumours will be stopped at all, simply more controlled. Grey Knight codex was released, what, 3/4 weeks before it was supposed to be. I couldn't believe that, no wonder they're tightening things up, heaps of lost money and hype because some prick thought it'd be "lolz" to release it. Less rumours = more controlled rumours. More controlled rumours = more reliable rumours (cannot tell you the bs we WH players go through...). More reliable rumours = better rumours and happier customers. That's what you want isn't it?
I have friends that the very day they heard of increase in prices, they started discussing Warmachine (Nothing really against it... I find it's too comical in appearance, models aren't as fine, they're chunkier and have fewer conversion options. The game isn't as well established, so there's less of a social side to it which I'd really miss. Like I said before, it hasn't got a support structure for people interested in starting. However yes, it is slightly cheaper than Warhammer and as far as I know you need less models). Some teenager on the net said there'll be a massive price increase. They abandon ship. "Cap'n there be pirates on the horizon" They all just jumped overboard while I'm standing there trying to see if it's a bird...
Was in the local store yesterday. Kid came in and started bagging GW. My mate, who also works there asked the kid how much it would cost for a 1.5k army, codex, paint, glue, and sand. They counted it up and it came to just under $700 for some mechanised SM (and mechanised tend to be more expensive). He then asked the same question for Xbox 360, half a dozen good games, 2/3 controllers, headsets, online subscription. It would cost you well over $1000. My mate then asked how many years is it until a new Xbox comes out? After that, what do you do with the games. The kid just gave him a funny look and said "I'd just throw them out". My mate laughed and walked off.
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Cannibal I'm going to answer a few of your points because I strongly disagree with your post.
1. I'm astonished you feel this way anyway since you live in Melbourne. As someone who is from the UK but spends alot of time in Australia the proposed change of independant stockists is utterly unreasonable. Can you explain to me why the prices of models in Australia and the U.S are so much higher than the UK equivalent? I understand shipping plays a small part but seriously can you defend a stormraven costing 41 pounds in the U.K and 110 dollars in Australia?! You might be happy to purchase your premium priced models in a store but most of us would prefer to get the lowest price possible for our hobby. GW not allowing us to do this through other stockists is not only terrible company policy but i'd also think borderline illegal sales practice.
2. GW never ever lower their prices and their price increases go way beyond current levels of inflation. Also can you explain to me why things like Dark Eldar wyches are increasing in price? They are nothing to do with the new resin change.
3. It's good you enjoy playing in the store that's why they are there at the end of the day. However, for those of who don't play in a store I think it's unfair you think we should pay the higher price so you and your friends can. If your so worried about new players coming in etc thats a principal reason that gw should lower prices, at the moment the cost of starting an army is exorbatant combine that with advertising of the hobby (something they never do) and i'd bet my house that their revenue would increase and the amount of new players coming into the hobby would increase which is a win for everyone.
I also live in Melbourne right between two gw stores (At this point wont say what they coze going to bag on one)
One of the stores I find to be very good with a good manger but the other has a manger that actively insults customers up sells every time and worse gives stupid advice to the new players you the sort of advice like kids comes in want to start an army no idea which one leaves with a baneblade
This up sell is one reason why gw stores’ are hurt so much
But lets just pretend this is not the case for a moment there are a lot of good ones out there
But even with this not that case many simply can not afford to buy at Auss rrp and in this age of globalization we know we are getting ripped off while what gw did may not be illegal it is I think immoral and against principles of free trade
I know a lot of you out there are like but this will help the local game store and I appreciate that your views come from a good a noble mind set but this will not help there are 13 people I know who are in the hobby or where thinking of getting in I have decided after my chaos army is done(with will be in 5 weeks) im done with gw I can no afford it as have 6 of my friends 4 of my friends that where on the fence on getting in or not where about to get in only because I told them how much cheaper it was online they are all out only 2 of my friends are say they will still buy the same amount fg gw stuff now as before one only collects bfg and other spelaiast games the other basically owns every unit in the fantasy game and will only buy new units and books that come out
And every where I look I see this mirrored in the last few years we have sean a massive rise in competitors for gw wyid Spartan games making firestorm Amada uncharted seas and dystopian wars privateer press making warmachine and horde infinity games to name but a few
Also gw has turned off much of there core fan base from 8th ed
I fear for the future of gw its stocks are doing poorly of late it seams the company is bleeding the sharks are in the water and rather then put a bandage on gw thinks leaches will help
Cannibal though i respect your opinions i am starting to wonder by your passion if you are indeed related with GW's industry in any way...
Funny or cynic remarks asside,i like seeing people supporting their local community shops but i think you miss a very important issue.
I will adress this issue using one example i am all too familiar with.
The place:My local store after i started my DA army about three years ago.
I bought the dark angels characters blisters(all three of them,an old school apothecary,a very old librarian model and the old school metal deathwing terminators 5 in number ).
So far the guy the has been extremely supportive going as far as to teach me my painting skills.And then all hell brakes loose.
I sit on the bench asking him on how to highlight the librarians tabart(highlights are not my thing)and i get this response:
'Why do you bother with this model?Its too old,propably none will allow you to use it an game,buy the new one here let me show it
to you.'When i responded that this is not the case and that even if it were i dont care i got a frustated look,he indeed though helped me
with those highlights.The following days he started loosing interest even going as far as simply nodding or answering with a couple of words
to my questions.Then i buy a dark angels battleforce that was gathering dust on their selves and suddenly the following day i was the guy with the
the most interesting and cool army of the store...
Regardless of this i remained a regular for many months yet,till i discovered something.Buying from that store a terminator squad costs me 38 euro.
Buying from GW site at UK it costs 31 euro!And before you say but what about shipping?Ill tell you that if i have patience and i buy more stuff out of the
site ill be saving around 20-30 euro for every 100 i spend.
Why should i buy from a local store if it is ripping me off and instead of remaining in friendly terms with me,tries to enforce a buy buy buy policy in me and when they see i want my own pace alienates me?
Point in case:A hobby store is a store indeed,its very commendable to support it but in every interaction there are two sides and both must benefit from the arrangement.
Go support everyother store that sells your favourite video games(if you play)for triple the price they sell it on stream for.
Returning to the topic of the thread:I believe that GW will not pull the plug in the rumour controll.Why?Because its them who spread the rumours.If you want
all those with the money to go instabuy a 3000 pts army from the preorder section you need rumours to build up the tension at least six months before a release,(go check the roumors section of this very site once the realeases of said rumours appear count the people hystericaly giving vows of buying and you will understand)and lets not forget blizzard the marketing gurus who built up tension starting from a crawl that may take even a decade to climax,their sales gives a point what expectations and rumours can do.
To sum it up:Local stores deserve our support as long as they support us in turn and dont view us as walking coinage.
There will never be a price decrease on the contrary.
GW is not a charity house.As long as we the customers keep eating theyll feed us the new expensive ultracool mins.
So as i said in the resin thread,go buy your stuff from wereever you want and dont complain about it,because we all deserve this treatment.
Praise be to the Emperor!!
Alright, I'll try and reply to the above... Not hating or anything, just sharing my views/opinions. But first, a huge part of me and my views on life/politics/religion/etc are influenced by this quote from Mark Twain: "Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reflect." No, I'm not one of those guys who argues for the sake of arguing, I just tend to look at both sides of the issue, I can't really go into detail over the interwebs, but from birth I've been forced to look at both sides of issues, just who I am.
@Release Are you aware that Australia has a 40% import tax... People say "shipping" and they think fuel costs to send it, but a lot of it is the government benefiting from the fact that we are a very isolated country. Damn Gillard... I sure didn't vote for her! Huh, what do you know it is $110... for some reason I thought it was less than that. As for models being at the price they are, I work full time and am in the fortunate position of being able to buy models as I need them, rather than buying what I can with the money I had (as was the case in high school). See, I dunno, I've never bought things online, my near-decade in the hobby has had me watch the prices rise steadily over the years, but the entire time I have simply looked at the models and said "Well, this is how much it is. Nothing I can do about it. I can't complain to the staff, since they're retailers and not businessmen. I can either buy models at a slower pace (Works out either way, I'm a slow painter) or I can quit." I chose to continue regardless. I could've gone online and bought models, but I never actually knew you could until 6 months ago really, but by then I had finished school and was working. I just think "If I'm playing with GW models, shouldn't I pay GW for them?".
Um, I dunno. I can't tell you those things. But nothing you, nor I, nor anyone else on this forum can do about it unfortunately. I'm just putting up with it. Inflation is annoying, but as for being higher than normal, welcome to capitalism! This is the way the world is.
Dude, I don't want others to suffer because I enjoy the social aspect of the hobby! I wrote that I didn't like the selfishness, that's not what I want at all. Like everything there's two sides to this. You clearly think that there should be the option to get them cheaper without the cost of stores, staff, etc. Yet on the other hand I'm willing to pay for it for the benefit of having the store, the staff, the people and the exposure. Just two sides of the issue, the way it is. Though I will ask you, if the prices were a lot lower, but there were far fewer stores around (to make up for the cost, makes sense), do you think that there would be more people starting? Lower prices would be awesome for everyone, but I don't know if I could have ever got into the hobby if there wasn't a store and I just happened to walk past. Just sayin'.
@Munch I find that Melb. stores either have awesome staff, or really bad ones. I've been in something like 4 of the Melb. stores, some were really good and those are the ones I return to, some just... yeah. Yeah, our prices suck. But again, neither of us can do anything about it.
@Pilot. If I worked at GW, I seriously doubt I'd be posting this... but is that what someone who DOES work for GW WOULD say? No, I don't work for GW... I work in a bottle shop... Better pay, less kids, less abuse, slightly more armed robberies though
Well yeah, I love my local store, I walk in and everyone's like "Hey *****!" and I bask in the love for a while, then beat-down some marine players. I don't know what store you're talking about (or which ones Munch is talking about for that matter, probs further down south...) but it sounds terrible. That has happened to me a few times (particularly when I was younger, had less money), where I actually feel unwelcome in the store, if I'm introduced as a friend of a regular or something they actually talk to me, but unless I pull out my case with easily over a $1000 worth of stuff in it they treat me like dirt. Staff like this give GW a bad name, sometimes it's the luck of the draw, which store you go into. I can't really disagree with that logic, if you're in a store that treats you that way it makes perfect sense really to not be interested in supporting a company like that.Exactly. I am fortunate enough to live near a store that doesn't treat me like dirt, so I have no problem working my butt off 9-5 to have the money to pay for that. If you're not fortunate enough to have that, then it makes sense to want to seek a better/cheaper way of hobbying. Regardless of our situations, GW seems to be closing the online independent stores. I guess that this sort of alienates some people, but it might just bring more people into stores, and hopefully again in the long run promote better staff members at GW stores. You might live in the "land of cynicism" but I'm just a bit hopeful here...To sum it up:Local stores deserve our support as long as they support us in turn and dont view us as walking coinage.
Looks to me like this is a giant "agree to disagree" situation. We will all wait and see with bated breath what these changes bring about, but I know that for me at least, I will continue to be a part of this community, supporting the company, etc. Barring 200% price increases and such...
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I have no problem with the rumor thing, it's exactly the way that Apple operate
Whatever industry you're in, people are working away trying to create cool stuff and the real pay-off happens when you see the 'penny drop' on people faces after they see it for the first time.
Having information leaked to a wider community is soul destroying, and i personally know about this from my work. Having something dumped out in cyberspace, without any context or backup material often confuses and angers end-users, ultimately killing off the desired user experience. Seeing the GK codex on the net weeks before it was officially released made me very angry indeed.
Often companies feel that they have to keep the 'whats coming up' info stream going so that people stay interested, and often where there is lots and lots of competition that is often necessary, although i don't like it. GW want to take complete control of their IP and info stream and i don't see that as a bad thing.
Price increases - while in the long run resin is probably cheaper, you've got to take into account the investment in training, materials, machinery etc etc.. and often companies secure long term supplies of materials. I wouldn't be surprised if GW had a long standing (2+ year) trade price for metals, and with the global spike in tin/copper prices, that price agreement isn't going to last. Look at those people who signed up for fix priced gas recently... that was honored for what, 1 year?
EVERYTHING EVERYWHERE WORLDWIDE is increasing in price... from a loaf of bread to petrol. Ultimately these costs have to be passed on and we (consumers) are at the bottom of the food chain.
Trading overseas - Don't know what to say about this. The prices quoted for a stormraven in Oz seem pretty high to me, even with a 40% import tax rate. I hope they can justify that or GW might loose a lot of players down under.
At the end of the day, this is a niche luxury product from a single company. They have the rights to control the IP, information, pricing, distribution and anything else. If we want to keep playing, and let's face it... we do, we're just going to have to suck it up and pay the piper (literally), even if that means having to wait a little longer for stuff.
Last edited by leighjt; May 20th, 2011 at 16:24.
Current Army Status - Chaos - 15000 points, Orks (BadMoonz) - 3000 Points - Space Wolves - 4000 Points, Necrons - 2000 Points.