Social Science In 40k Background - Warhammer 40K Fantasy

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 20
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    23
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    yeah, I know I'm the biggest geek for this post... but...

    Recently I was doing a major amount of reading in sociology and political science and I was amazed at how many theories I found that were actually expressed perfectly in the 40K fluff, particularly the fluff dealing with the Emperor and the Imperium in general. Many times I found theoreis by Durkheim, Marx, Rousseau, Hobbes, and especially Weber demonstrated expertly. I'd have to say either someone who writes for GW is a brilliant writer or is a social science uber-nerd like I am and spent way too much effort on the whole thing. Either way, it is pretty brilliant in my opinion. You could teach a whole year of courses based off off using 40K as a rubric.

    Anybody else find this to be true or find connections between 40K and other sciences?

    Feel free to reply, even if it is just to tell me that I am a geek.


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements

  3. #2
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    231
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    your a geek lol and that very cool...maybe someone should start a school that uses stuff from games to teach ppl about real life and all that social science and that jazz
    IG: 1000+Pts

    Win/Loss/Draw
    03/01/00

  4. #3
    Senior Member Agate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Hamilton
    Age
    29
    Posts
    268
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    15 (x1)

    well i don't know but i have a theory actually 3 theores

    1) Coincidence... not gunna explain this

    2) Conspiracy... If i explained this i would have to kill you...well maim anyway

    3) You in your entheusiasm and over all pli and social sci spunk are over analysizindg and drawing conclusions where there is a really nothing intended

    You make the call and if it is number 3 that sucks because i am puling for number 2
    Agate's Theorem TM

    Awesome + Awesome = Double Awesome

  5. #4
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New Enlgand
    Posts
    243
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Ohh yeah there are countless similarites between modern/acient political and military figures and beliefs in 40k.

    The Imperium is basically a mix between Nazi supremesist fascisiom With all the human supremecy and the Inquisition is the gestapo. And some Japenese Imperialism with the mindless zealot guardsmen willing to sacrafice themselves in the name of their god emperor.

    The imperium has Commissars which are basically the exact same thing of the Russian Commissars, "You can die from the bullets of the enemy, or by the bullets of your superiors"
    Even some of the special characters are based on political figures, Like Usarker E. Creed is based off of Grand General Michail Kutozov, the head general of Tsar Alexander's army during the napoleonic wars. Kutuzov was so fat he had to be hauld around the battlefield in a carriage, Creed is of generous build. Kutuzov was blind in one eye, Creed has that scar. Kutozov was a devout almost fanatical follower of the Eastern Orthodox Church, And Creed like any other good imperial servant fanatically serves his god emperor.
    "Everyone should try arrogance, it's absolutely wonderful. You can go out, do whatever you want, and go home. And the best part is, no matter what you do, or how much you ***** everything up, nothing's ever your fault because 'thou art god'."

    -Bernard M. Smith, the <u>real</u> Michael Smith and modern day Petronius

  6. #5
    Senior Member ugluk-bludeth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    tennessee
    Age
    40
    Posts
    679
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    13 (x2)

    man....that was some deep thinking.........
    i sometimes wish that they would make a pre-heresy emperor model...
    newho....i think that the imperium in the 41st millinium is quite terrifing(sorry, my spelling sucks ) but i think it is as imperlistic as any other conquering society through out history.
    the funny thing is, the more i think about what all the "fluff" has to offer in the new rule book, i think that it is a neccesary society that the emperor has made in order for the continual existence of mankind in the known universe, however, i think that the imperium is far more evil in many different ways than the Chaos threat or even the DE, for those two, thier evil is at least a semi structure of hate that is right in your face and ready to kill, the empire however, is mytholicaly evil behind every closed door imaginable and where trust is a fleeting glimpse of what will never be agian.
    wWWwwAaaaAAgggGGGhHHHhhh!!!! = DeAth

  7. #6
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    23
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Well, originally I was speaking of purely social theories that I had read about, but in bringing up specific characters based off of real life individuals just ties it together even more. Beginning with the Stanford Prison study, group psychologists and sociologists have been slowly realizing that group dynamics works very differently in any way that we had previously conceived.
    The social sciences have been telling everybody for the past few hundred years that groups basically operate as a sum of their parts, that each person&#39;s individual personality quirks contribute something to the group and that we retain our individuality. The Stanford Prison study shows that when in a group each of us modifies our behavior and personalites involuntarily to fulfill the needs of the whole group and allow the group to complete its function. So we don&#39;t input our personalities into the group, the group inputs our personalities into us. Upon realizing this the entire social science community suddenly gulped, realizing that human social behavior did not easily conform to our logical/rational model and that in order to figure ourselves out we were actually going to have to do the legwork. The Political Science community gulped a second time as they suddenly realized that quite a few theories and systems that human society had spent building for the past few centuries were less tha pointless (such as the criminal justice system).
    Anyway, this leads me to believe that the classical Archetypes of psychology are actually social phenomenon e.g. that given the right situation a specific personality will be created. This recycling of history, although I&#39;m sure it was done purposefully, also is a good example of what I just described.
    I&#39;m glad you brought that up IGgeneral... coincidentally this same idea is the subject of my master&#39;s thesis in sociology. I&#39;m using reality tv shows and a model and showing how every season of each show (since they have the same rules) produces a predictable cast of personalities regardless of the mix of personalities that they actually put on the show. For example, how many times have you heard "I&#39;m not really a bitch, I don&#39;t know why I acted that way on the show."..

    Its not easy being me.

  8. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    50
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Extremely good thread.

    I too have sometimes questioned why I like 40K and the Imperial armies so much since in real life I am a pacifist, totally anti-war and lean to the left(extreme left if you use US political measuring sticks). Shouldn´t I really feel bad about rooting for what is essentially a fascist, human-supremacy civilization that teaches it´s people to obey, not think, to regard everything and everyone that isn´t exactly like them(aliens, heretics, even their own technology&#33 with a poisonous mixture of hate, fear and agression?

    I think that on a deep level almost all people(males at least) are drawn to the spectacle of violence, of open warfare and shows of supremacy and strength. Even the most level-headed socialist can get worked up over the result of a soccer game, which is really just a battlefield with diffrent objectives. The need for teamwork, individual effort, tactics, good physical condition and a smart mind are there. Only diffrence is that instead of trying to kill your opponent you are trying to put a ball in a goal. A superficial diffrence at best.

    The writers of 40K have given us the ultimate powertrip in the Imperial Armies. Why? Because their hate and fear is totally justified. Almost all their enemys are truly loathsome figures, that can never be negotiated with or lived in peace with. No matter how much the Imperium opresses their subject, that will always be a better fate for said subjects than living under the rule of Chaos, as Ork slaves or being eaten by the Hive Fleets.

    Remember that many of the Nazi soldiers actually thought they were saving their motherland from deadly threats, the corrupting influence of Communism and Jewish conspiracies. Most of them probably were people like us who didn´t really enjoy killing and conquering, but bought the myth that Germany was facing annihilation by these foreign enemys. The average Imperial Guardsman is motivated by the same reasons, except that in his case his fear is competely rational and justified.

  9. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Texas, USA, North America, Earth, Segmentum Solaris
    Posts
    969
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    2 (x2)

    Dang, why should i even bother going to my sociology class, i could learn it all right here&#33;
    It&#39;s not Raymond Luxury Yacht, It&#39;s pronounced throat wobbler mangrove.
    <img src='http://arago4.tn.utwente.nl/stonedead/tv-series/pictures/fc-22/thumbnails/raymond-luxury-yacht.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
    My elvish name is Maeglin Meneldur.

  10. #9
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    New Enlgand
    Posts
    243
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Corvid I&#39;m glad you brought up the fact that people are naturally drawn to the spectacle of violence. This totaly agrees with my somewhat contraversial beleaf on the Roman Games. (The next couple paragraphs are going to get a little off topic but please bare with me.)

    One day in my history class, my teacher asked my why the Roman Empire fell, to which i replied they got rid of the games. She told me to stop joking and to state the larger reason rome fell, then i stated (and i don&#39;t want to offend anyone) they converted to Christianity, which lead to the end of the games.

    This completly makes sense if you look at it in a certain way. The average human being needs many things, Maslov and his pyramid of needs addressed this well but they left out Entertainment. The Games were the equivilent of todays state run media. Christianity deemed the games sinful so they were discontinued, leaving the government unable to control the peoples minds, and weak in comparison to the church.

    The government lost its grip over the people and class tensions became even greater till the empire fell.

    Many modern Authors have some equivilent of the games in their writtings.

    Bradbury wrote of the White Clown, a telivision program that came on every day, that amused and controlled the masses with his dancing(to this day my favorite quote is "Can you dance faster than the White Clown?" everyone thinks its a drug reference)

    In Huxley&#39;s Brave New World, Mind controlling Drugs, elaborate brutal sports, and meaningless sex keeps the masses content and since they are entertained no one chalanges the system.

    And finaly in Orwells 1984 the state controlled media, and propaganda takes the place of the games.

    When you controll the entertainment you controll the masses, why do you think so many actors have turned into politicians?

    Once again, i realize this is a little of topic but i still think it is a valid point.
    &quot;Everyone should try arrogance, it's absolutely wonderful. You can go out, do whatever you want, and go home. And the best part is, no matter what you do, or how much you ***** everything up, nothing's ever your fault because 'thou art god'.&quot;

    -Bernard M. Smith, the <u>real</u> Michael Smith and modern day Petronius

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Posts
    50
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Originally posted by IGgeneral@Oct 21 2004, 22:24

    When you controll the entertainment you controll the masses, why do you think so many actors have turned into politicians?

    [snapback]235107[/snapback]
    You are right, even the Dalai Lama has stated(I think in a conversation to U2´s Bono) that musicians and movie stars need to get more politically active, because they willbe the true leaders of the 21st century, able to exert influence worldwide. That singers and actors are becoming more and more the people we look to for guidance over political and religious leaders is sort of a scary thought, but really, could they do a worse job of it? I don´t think so.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts