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Hey guys I just finish a weekend of trying to build my new necron army up and by the end of it I was almost ready to kill someone...and so now I have to rant a little. Has anyone else noticed how GW is making models for painters now instead of the gamers for example this weekend I was trying to put together some of the new lychgaurd models.....and it was almost impossible. For anyone who hasnt seen the models the arms pretty much come so you can only pose them one way. The arms are cut at the wrist and they leave the hands on the staff. So unless you have four hands it is almost impossible to get the arms and staff on correctly because you have to glue both arms in and glue the staff to the arms all at the same time or the position will be off. God forbid you drop the model on the playing table a week later...the staff will fall off because there isnt a big enough gluing surface and you cant even pin the hands because there isnt enough plastic there to do it not that you should ever have to pin a plastic model. The Immortal kit is even worse not only do you have to get the arms and gun into position you also have to get the tube that runs into gun into position. All of this is ok if you were going to just paint the mini and put it on a shelf but if you actually play with these models (which is the point right?) they wont last very long. Also with any of the new necron models you have to green stuff the shoulder pads or youll have nasty line right through them....this could have been avoid-it with better design. Now after saying all this I want to say that I do spend A LOT of time painting my models and I do enjoy that part of the hobby....but in the end im in this game to play the game which was the original purpose of this game back when it came out. On a side note I also think they are putting to much detail in to the troops (ex. space wolves) its ok to go overboard with HQs but I dont need to be spending hours painting each model. And finally my main point...if a guy like me, a 25 year old man who has been modeling since I was young, has trouble with these how is a younger kid just getting into the hobby supposed to deal with it. I think some of this leads to the younger generation just not painting because its just so overwhelming.
I just want to thank you if you read this whole thing...let me know what you think.
Keep in mind, though, that I'm also into the hobby for the conversion/painting aspect over the wargaming aspect. And I think GW does that better than anybody else. Were I wanting a good wargame, I probably would have gone elsewhere.
Not much of a converter yet,but i aspire to be soon.But i agree with Klajorne.Also a side note:It might be marketed as a wargame but since its infancy the modeling hobby(as modeling little soldiers)it was designed to build and paint the models,wargaming came afterwards.Said models(from all ranges) are designed for this not to survive 'handling'.
A little advice:I dont know which glues you use but i use super glues.They are cheap and once something is stuck its stuck.You need to put much force on it in order to separate it again.I used it to my GKs to be DAs.The models have the same gimmicks on certain hands and swords and halberds as those you describe on the necs.No problems.In fact i appreciated it due to the fact that i can pose the fists to more dramatic motions without the need to hack off the wrists as i did a month ago for a deathwatch marine.
Also more details are more welcome from my perspective too.After all making them bland would be too easy and more cost effective for the company but also boring and without character.Just compare a tactical marine with a blood claw.Now imagine an ultramarine army vs a sw army both painted to high standards.Which one catches your eye more?
So this hobby must balance both.Lets take a hypothetical view:Klajorne(for our arguments shake) can argue and complain big time because he wants more details on his models and conversion opportunities.TheNextMikeIke can argue that he needs bland models to take minimum time to paint and i can argue that i can take to mediocrity on both sides as long as fluff is worth a nobel price in literature.So who is right and who is wrong?
Last edited by pilot00; January 6th, 2012 at 10:38.
Praise be to the Emperor!!
I see how you are, pilot.
I wasn't really trying to pick on the OP, but I was probably rushed for time the first time out. I understand the frustration you were facing putting the model together, as I have to do some pretty weird finger contortions to put a lot of my models together. And I had the same problem with my necrons, where the glue point was so small it didn't take much to snap it sometimes (but keeping trying it eventually held).
But I do think there are better products if all you want is a solid body model with maybe one interchangeable arm or head or something. To me (as a modeler), one of the biggest selling points for GW (and why they are worth the extremely high price) is the modularity of the models. The fact that the arms and hands and weapons and legs and all that junk comes in separate pieces might make it a pain to assemble sometimes, but it also is a kit-basher's dream. It's what made plastics so drastically superior to metal (and now finecast) figs. Even though the latter held much more detail, it was difficult if you wanted to change out something as simple as a head, or remove any of the iconography.
So, pretty much what pilot said: there are several aspects of the hobby, and something that might be a negative to you might be a positive to me. There's no real way to say that any of us are more correct than another.
The way I assembled my Lychguard arms was as follows:
1. Find the correct arms for the staff I wanted to use.
2. Have the base, legs and body pre-assembled and firmly glued together.
3. Using some very small blobs of blue-tak (other sticky putty products are available), test fit the arms with the staff.
4. Now you have an idea in your mind of what angle you want the staff, superglue on the RIGHT arm only (at the angle you wanted).
5. Now fix a pin into the wrist of the LEFT arm (see below). Then drill a pin hole in the left hand that's gripping the staff. Don't glue these to anything yet!
6. Now test fit the remaining arm and the staff (shouldn't be too difficult, since you only need to hold two parts now. Blue-tak the model's base to your desk if you need to).
7. While holding the left arm in the test fit position, add superglue to the pin in the left wrist and bring the hands holding the staff to the wrists. Hold until the left hand is superglued to the left wrist.
8. Now you have a model with one arm glued to it, and a staff with the other arm glued to it.
9. It's is now a simple matter to dot superglue on the right wrist and the left shoulder socket, then bring your staff and left arm to the perfectly aligned shoulder socket and right arm!
That was all for the Lychguard, the Immortals were a similar case. They required test fitting to line up the wrists and the spine cable, but only the Lychguard needed a bit of pinning.
It is possible to pin the wrists to the hands, you just need a 1mm drill bit (even a 0.5mm bit if you want) and a small paperclip or thin wire (to use as the pins). Now since you mentioned pinning MikeIke, I guess you know how to do it, but I'll explain in detail anyway how I did it, for completeness and for other forumites who might not know.
1. Use the tip of a craft knife to make a very tiny pilot hole in the end of the wrist and the corresponding hand (this gives the tip of the drill bit somewhere to 'lock' into and stops it slipping when you start).
2. Drill a short hole (about 2-3mm) into the wrist and hand. Be very careful with drilling into the wrist, as the narrow 'forearm bones' of the Necron arm don't leave much room for error!
3. Dab a tiny dot of superglue on the end of a straightened paperclip and insert it into the wrist. Once it's glued firmly, clip off the paperclip with some wirecutters, leaving about 2mm of paperclip sticking out of the wrist.
4. Add another dot of superglue to the bit of wire sticking out of the wrist, and insert it into the hole in the hand.
5. Arm is now pinned to hand! This should help keep the model from falling apart.
As a final point, when supergluing your models, make sure you use a decent brand of superglue (Loctite for example) that is packaged in a well designed applicator bottle, and not some cheap pound store type or horribly overpriced yet rubbish superglue from a well known wargaming store!
"Peace, through superior firepower."
Fiddly, difficult to put together models? these aren't new.
Multi-part metal models have been the bane of my life since around 1990
PLAN CLAN MAN!!
He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man- S. Johnson
I believe some super glue will solve this problem as well,in fact i had one of those metal standard bearers around and today i stripped him down,problem was the pole was broken.I super glued it and now its ok.
Praise be to the Emperor!!
The other thing that helps a lot with fiddly models and posing is to use "blue-tack" (or w/e the brand is... sticky putty for hanging posters). That helps to give an idea as to where each piece needs to sit. This, combined with selective and careful sub-assemblies (following the numbering from the kits) makes building and painting the newer GW kits a lot easier. In fact, I can't stress the sub assembly thing enough (saved my bacon with the GK kits).
Yeah, it's definitely funny to hear this stuff now, after being in the hobby for so long. At least this stuff isn't metal - I have metal models with the exact same design from about a decade ago, and if you think there's anything for frustrating than waiting for plastic to fuse together (this is what my glue does at least, melts a little on each contact surface and fuses it - I use Testor's), wait until you're stuck waiting for metal glue to set and harden.
I just build (back to back no less) a kit of the new High Elf Phoenix Guard, and the new GK box. Both of them have the same "glue on the arms, then glue on the wrists" assembly, and it seems to be the route that GW is going for dual-hand weapons. Gotta admit, I had some punching-a-baby moments during assembly, but I eventually worked it out.
My method? Do a dry-run of how the arms and wrists fit together, and what angle you're going to need. Then glue on the left arm and make sure it stays at the correct angle. Let it get pretty tacky, but not quite dry (in case you need to make some fine adjustments) and then glue the other arm on, along with the wrists for both arms. As it's plastic, the wrists/staff should be light enough to stay pretty well on it's own (let the glue set up for a little if you need to) while you fiddle with the right arm to line everything up.
Easily my most hated part of the whole ordeal - GK special weapons. Basically you get a bent arm which is stupidly cut off at the wrist holding the trigger of the weapon. Then you get a left arm including a fist holding a handle that attaches to the top of the weapon. So you have this immensely heavy, single-cast weapon, which you have to not only glue on like the staff, but make sure that a single contact patch matches up with the left arm. Guess what - all of my Psycannons are in the same pose, so that I could pin the weapon directly to their chests.