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With the new rules a lot of things have changed quite considerably but one of the changes which I haven't seen anyone talk about is the new Hull Down Rules.
Am I the only one that thinks that they just do not represent reallity to the best possible way?
The old rules established that once you were in cover, with less area of your vehicle showing it would be impossible to get hit squarely and provoque a penetrating hit or hit a vital part also provoquing a better damage.
On the new rules things don't quite work this way. Although I can see why and even agree with the need for the piece of terrain covering the vehicle to a certain size, what I do not aunderstand is the roll to actually be in cover.
As the rules stand at the moment even behind a ruined wall/hill there is a chance that the vehicle is not in cover. If this is not enough then even if you do not move the vehicle for a full game chances are that some of the opponent's turns your vehicle will be hull down while other will be in plain sight.
Does anyone other tham me think this is at least strange?
The old rules where definatelty better no question about it. The new rules like you said do make some sense but they are not portrayed in the right way.
In the end there is only war.
I always get so confused with the new Terrain rules.
Im so used to the old style of Necromunda/2nd Ed/3rd Ed....
"See Em Shoot Em"
Now I gotta remember what each of homemade terrain is classified.
And everyone has differnet ideas during the game.
The Hull Down Rule is lacking.
KMFDM doing it again, a treat for the freaks.
Truth or Dare. Are you ready for this?
We don't care!
I agree, you don't see troops rolling for cover, they just have it. I however, like the new rule as I prefer less mechinization, and i am more of an assaulty player.
I actually like the new rule. I found it too static when people would stick a dread or tank in a patch of woods and make it so impossibly hard to kill it.
Vehicles are huge and not going to be that well protected by foliage or buidling. They take up so much space and to be able to see out to shoot people are going to be able to see them. The 4+ makes it possible to protect your vehicle but not over so. I think the ruling is more realistic myself and I do play with a lot of tanks. Overall though it is more opinion and I like it.
The new obscured target rule is pretty much in line with the rest of 4th edition in that it makes vehicles much more vulnerable and emphasises troops. Before, there just wasn't much reason to take a devasator or havok squad if you could just sit a predator in cover and have it immune to all small arms and basically all anti tank weapons. I still use many tanks and they do tend to get knocked out quicker, but that's the price you pay.
On another note, I think that the new terrain rules may be a bit harsh for vehicles. I usually roll 1s on my terrain checks when they are one dice, but now I use two if the tank moves more than 6". So much for the ork trukk.
The enemies of the Emperor fear many things. They fear discovery, defeat, despair and death. Yet there is one thing they fear above all others. They fear the wrath of the Space Marines!
I think it also gives people more reason to buy terrain modifiers to help with that reroll especially if you intend to move 12.
I like the new rule, it prevents (somewhat) the phenomenon of the 'indestructible predator' in the ruins. You know the one, mutated hull, both possessions, in the 3rd edition that thing was basically indestructible if put behind a wall.
That thing about area terrain just made me think do vehicles still have to roll to be hull down when they are in area terrain?
Brother Marius: I don't think that 4th Ed made vehicles more vulnerable, in my view they made everything more vulnerable, they simply jumped from assault motivated game to a shooting game...
Well, maybe it just my gamegroup and our luck with vehicles, but I think vehicles are some of the most vulnerable models in the game. There are so many high Str weapons that rip trough smaler ons like trough butter, and even the mighty Landraider canÂ´t take much punishment.
Anything that lets vehicles survive a bit longer is good in the spirit of the game, in my book. I think in my game group we will use the old rules, but update them a bit, so that a tank that is weaponless and imobilized gets destroyed when it gets another weapon destroyed or imobilized, that elevates the problem of the undestruktable Predator enough.
Or maybe give them masspoints like the super heavy tanks, when you would have some wounds that needs to be shot away befor the vehilce can be destroyed, I am sure many people would use them much more aggressivly and trow them at the front.