Morality And Ethics In Wh40k? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 69
  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Van Nuys, CA
    Posts
    43
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    I recently read a post on this forum describing how the empire is, in fewer words: Evil. This is a thought I've been tinkering with for some time now. Even as an SM player, I must admit: as both a battle brother, AND an american: The empire is evil. Ofcourse, the witty british like to work satire into everything, including thier games, which explains this occourance.

    The way I've taken perrogitive on the whole empire is as follows:

    GW iconizes the human race itself as "the good guys" from the perspective of the fact that we're all human, and that for the most part, we want to expand, just like every sentient race with opposable thumbs. BUT, the Imperium of Man is actually evil, and this is because of the nature of your average human. See, for thousands upon thousands of years now, the emperor had been the guy with all the answers. He was the guy who knew everything, and was basically a god to humans. But he was alas only human. At first, through out history, he had tried a catholic God's approach to mankind: Let them rule themselves. But I forget what happened, and he basically says "alright you bunch of savages: you cant handle yourself? I'LL HANDLE YOU". So he sets about becoming emperor, and basically, quelling the fears of all his subjects and followers by not considering other races and maybe working things out. Instead, he just gives the order to exterminate everything else from the galaxy, in hopes to keep his people happy and care free.

    But after his 'death' though, he became unable to lead his empire, and so the lesser beings of mankind now rule the imperium through assumption and ignorant decision making.

    Case in point: A space Marine may not know how his armor works, or came to be, or even the technical stats of it, but thats because no one really does. It was an invention of the emperor, and with out the inventor, every one is too far behind technologically to really do much about it. The maintenance crews for landraiders? The have no clue what! they're doing, they just know it "appeases" the machine gods, and gives the landraider good fortune.


    So I guess my thesis statement is that: the imperium of man isnt evil because its trying to be; its evil because its ignorant and stupid. Trillions of humans governed by a few spare million ((if that)), with none of them having TOO MUCH more of a better view on things than each other.


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Member Baal_Predator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    yeh, i was thinking of something like this today, trying to pull the races into good/evil.
    I eventually came to the conclusion that its all a matter of opinion, and that if you're a tyranid, your not evil, your doing what you insinctivly do, the same with orcs. People say that Chaos is the only certain evil one, but why is it so? Just becuase the chaotic powers want to destroy humanity and all civilised races, does not make them evil in certain eyes.
    Therefore, if you look at the horrifically xenophobic, prejudice, tyrannical Imperium in opposite eyes, it's evil. But if you look at it from another pair of eyes it is a shining beacon, the last hope of Humanity.
    Thats what I was thinking about, it all comes down to perspective in the end.
    Anyway, hope that gave you my thoughts,
    Pred.
    PS. I play space marines, so i'm not being biased above or anything like that, if you saw it that way (gosh, perspective comes up so much in all aspects of life, i think i just invented a new religon&#33.
    "There is no Black and White, just shades of Grey..."
    Baal_Predator, Libraium Online Forum, Monday 13th December 2004

  4. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Posts
    38
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    The only certainty is death... and that evil will always exist. Everyone in 40k is evil; how can you justify virus-bombing the entire population of a planet just because of one lousy genestealer?

    And we Brits get screwed over so damned much our wit has been forever twisted into the current, sarcastic satire of which you speak. Someday you will come to understand why, most likely if you come to Britain.

    Also, the influence of Star Wars on 40k is huge, and the Imperium is a rip-off of the Empire, which was of course, EVIL.
    A less disturbed view on the matter

    Salty
    <a href='http://salty180.tripod.com' target='_blank'>Librarium Sanctificus</a>


  5. #4
    Member Baal_Predator's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    40
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    what makes you think the Imperium is copied from Star Wars? How the hell, apart from there is a big place called &#39;The Imperium(Empire)&#39; and that it is set in space is there any connection between Star Wars and 40k at all? I&#39;ve gone off topic but HOW?&#33; Aliens in SW are a common sight in the Empire and the Rebel Alliance, whilst any xenos living in the imperium would be sluaghtered minutes from discovery. And, as I said, not everyone is evil, only a collective few, depending on your perspective.
    &quot;There is no Black and White, just shades of Grey...&quot;
    Baal_Predator, Libraium Online Forum, Monday 13th December 2004

  6. #5
    Senior Member rovens's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Clacton, Essex, UK
    Age
    30
    Posts
    325
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    8 (x1)

    Nurgle isnt really evil in my opinion, disease is a natural occurence. All he does is spread disease and invent new strains. Oay maybe he is evil, but he seem the less &#39;chaotic&#39; to me. I havnet explained this very well.

  7. #6
    Sap
    Sap is offline
    Member Sap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    147
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    To me the Imperium is perhaps the most evil of the lot. Scarily they&#39;re pretty much like us now in some ways.

    The Tyranids aren&#39;t evil. They just do what they&#39;re made to do. Same with Orks. They&#39;re not good, not bad... they just are.

    Chaos? Depends. I can&#39;t remember the spelling for the God the Thousand Sons follow, but I like his idealogy. Plus that of the Tau. Are the Tau evil? No.
    If you don&#39;t know what you want you end up with a lot of stuff you don&#39;t.

  8. #7
    Senior Member bloodinferno's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Madison Wisconsin
    Age
    28
    Posts
    271
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    6 (x1)

    I agree with the above statement that it all depends on ones perspective if something is good and something is evil. Each race is looking out for its own survival. In that sense all the other races are veiwed as evil by each race, and each race veiws themselves as the good guys compared to the other races. Therefore they are all good and all evil. Personally, however, i don&#39;t believe anyone can say one race is evil and the other is not. Or that any of them are evil for that matter. I mean what defines evil? (philosophy time&#33.

    As far as the Imperium is concerned i don&#39;t think it is evil, and by evil I mean an empire based off of suppressing the poor and ignorant for ones own benefit. I Think it is pretty clear that what the emperor does is what is best for the preservation of the empire. If 5,000,000 people must die on one planet for the rest for the human race (1 X 10^umptienth) then so be it.

    I also think it is very absurd to say the emperor is an evil dictator that craves power. As in the emperor=darth vader. I mean seriously, he is thousands of years old hooked up to a giant machine. His life must seriously suck. He, however, has a good enough sense of morality to sacrifice the enjoyability of his life, or his desire to end his life, to sustain Humanity. He and Humanity both work together to survive, this is not a evil tyrant ruling all humans.

  9. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Gloucester, MA
    Posts
    29
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    The Warhammer 40,000 universe is composed mainly of extremes.

    Quite often, people are quick the claim that the Imperium is the "most evil". I tend to disagree.

    The Imperium needs to be extreme in order to survive. When unknown psychers can become gateways for daemons, its not a simple "oooh, fight the daemon and save the people," type thing. Its a "OMG that sector is screwed unless we do something," type thing.

    When you find genestealers on a planet, odds are, most of the planet has some sort of genestealer heritage. By then, its already too deeply rooted.

    The Imperium keeps its citizens in the dark, for good reason. Do you think everyone would go on about their lives if they knew that there were warp creatures waiting for the right moment to eat their minds? I don&#39;t think so.

    There are circumstances that need to be dealt with harshly in a harsh world. The Imperium, being the last bastion of humanity, its God-Emperor all-but a corpse on life-support, ruled by aristocrats, outfitted by religious fanatics, is not in the best of shape.

    People might ask "How can you kill the entire population of a planet?"

    I answer, "How can I not?"

    Essentially, EVERY force in 40k is like this. The Eldar constantly butting horns, because they think they know better than the Imperium. The Tau, because they are a small group struggling to survive.

  10. #9
    Sap
    Sap is offline
    Member Sap's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    147
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    People are just expendable and that&#39;s acceptable? Nuhuh.

    The Imperium are xenophobic. That&#39;s evil. They&#39;re totally intolerant.

    The Tau, on the other hand, aren&#39;t xenophobic at all. They actually care about people.
    If you don&#39;t know what you want you end up with a lot of stuff you don&#39;t.

  11. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    745
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    6 (x2)

    The Imperium isnt evil, the Ecchlesiarchy(sp?) and whoever rules for the emperor are.

    If i remember correctly, and i do, the emperor wasnt xenophobic, he didnt like aliens, but he didnt really set out to destroy them entirely either, he even came in contact with the xenos a few times and talked w/ them(Eldar among others)

    But after his &#39;death&#39; his views were open for interpretation and xenophobia was the interpretation by the ecclesiarchy and the rulers of the imperium
    W/D/L
    Tau - Knights of the Frozen Wastes
    10/2/4

    Necrons - The Phalanx of Gleaming Death
    2/0/0

    CSM - Iron Warriors
    Coming Soon

    98% of the teen population has smoked weed, if you are the 2% that hasn't, put this in your signature.

Closed Thread
Page 1 of 7 123 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts