Choking on Marines

[Sareld]

I max out low ap weapons on all my lists, simply because all I see is power armor. Some call it cheesy, but I don´t see how simply avoiding weak weapons in my army is a bad thing to do. Seriously, when any of you non-marine players design a turney list, don´t you design a list that so that it is mainly effective vs. power armor?

[taint_of_the_dark_ones]

I have to agree with you, however I do difer with some of your points. Whenever I enter a tournament, my army (either IG or radical DH) is orientated to face all oponents and win (hopefully). I don't assume I'm going to be playing sm. The reason for this is that if I do tune my army to be deadly to them, whenever I face an opponent who isn't playing power armour, you will struggle. This is also the reason why I don't play sm, as everyone knows there strengths and weaknesses (the downsides of being most popular army!) but has a less chance of figuring out mine. I hope some of that made sense,
Taint

[Wolf_Pack]

Originally Posted by taint_of_the_dark_ones

I have to agree with you, however I do difer with some of your points. Whenever I enter a tournament, my army (either IG or radical DH) is orientated to face all oponents and win (hopefully). I don't assume I'm going to be playing sm. The reason for this is that if I do tune my army to be deadly to them, whenever I face an opponent who isn't playing power armour, you will struggle. This is also the reason why I don't play sm, as everyone knows there strengths and weaknesses (the downsides of being most popular army!) but has a less chance of figuring out mine. I hope some of that made sense,
Taint

It really does, and to proove it, at conflict montreal I fielded my all kroot merc army, facing 4 marines a a necron. All 4 marines didn't know what to expect from guy who don't have a 3+ save, D cannons or a crapload of lemann russ, and I finished second best general and overall.

[taint_of_the_dark_ones]

I know WD is now used for marketing purposes, and is always biased, but I do find articles interesting every now and then. I think everyone has at some point had a space marine army, but why don't they promote the other power armoured armies, like sisters of battle? I think GW needs to stop promoting sm so much, and focus on other armies that have the same if not better potential. I indeed see the points on being good for beginers, but 4 wd's later, and I'm still reading how 'fantastic' the space marines are. Sisters have a greater model selection (what I mean is not all troops are power armoured), have the same amount of fluff, but are overlooked because the space marines are GW's gem army. Just my 2 cents,
Taint

[Osaria]

Tournies should have a rule: Only so many entires of each race, showing favor to races that should have more and limiting races that have less (like SM).

This would piss off alot of SM players but I dont care because when the created world only supports 1000 chapters of 1000 (100000 space marines and are supposted to be the rarest of all of the races then why do they make up the bulk of things (from a in game logic point of veiw).

[Wolf_Pack]

then on this logic how many tyranids would it take?

[taint_of_the_dark_ones]

I don't think you can tell someone they can't play because they are using space marines. If by going on the most numerous races, you would have large numbers of tyranids and ork players, a fair few IG players, all SM varients (including the ordos), then elder, dark elder, tau. The only reason I did not mention NEcrons is they have an unknown number of sleeping colonies. I can't see this working, as you are limiting options, which is what I think the game is all about. How a player can interpret the rules, make a fluffwise and powerful list, and finaly the way the play the list. I don't mind playing all those power armoured opponents, but I'm just sick of hearing ****y sm players stating their army is unkillable because they have superhuman warriors and land raiders.

From this, another point can be made. GW is trying to percieve the sm's as unbeatable, which they simply are not. Showing them as continuesly victorious makes younger players want to play them, and if they find they can't win with them, they are turnt away from the game. I find this sad, as I realy enjoy this game, especialy the history behind it.

[Sareld]

A tourney would be 2/5 orks, 2/5 nids, and 1/5 everything else

[Wolf_Pack]

Good point Taint, no matter what, marines always win, and espeicially in the WD battle reports, where they get glorious victories. If they are so invinvible, why haven't they conquored the galaxy already?

[taint_of_the_dark_ones]

I think a great example of this is the battle between the marnius calgar and his terminators against necrons. This game was biased from the start. The necron player chose units that rarely if ever see the field. He had odd numbers of units, no practical equipment, and generaly wasted points. The mission also favoured the sm player, and I knew that without reading the report, who was going to win. Congratulations guys, you succesfully convinved inexperienced players into buying more models becuase of one of the most biased games ever. Anything for a sale realy.