Choking on Marines

[box]

i guess we also have to thank gw for space marines. because if they did not get the sales they did they wouldnt be able to spend the extra money on the vets races like eldar and nids and orks and all the rest.and chances are the next issue will be packed with nids stuff because you have to remember that the nids probably wont be released untill may. Im talking aboout the may issue ofg white dwarf.

[taint_of_the_dark_ones]

Of course gw's huge success s due to there marketing, and of course to the new players choosing to play sm's. I actually wouldn't mind reading everything on the tyranids, why?, because they are an older edition of models so it will be interesting to see there new style of play and look. The thing about sm's is the become predictable, and you know what will be in the next codex, where the tyranids have the option to have a much more radical kind of change (not saying that is needed, but the option is there). I will enjoy reading a differant topic, and await for my precious wood elf book (I know that is fantasy, but meh).
Taint

[PITTS86]

I have to admit that i am a closet SM player, though I do play legion of the dammed so Im not your average Vannilla SM kinda guy... though I do have an intense loathing for Ultra Marines

[Hard A**]

Once again, we have a 'why does Games Workshop do something' thread.

My understanding is, that something between 50% and 70% of all their sales (in UK at least) are Space Marines (or directly related to Space Marines).

They are the most iconic, easily recognisable race they produce, in either 40K, FB or LOTR.

I don't blame them for deliberately aiming to have ONE figurehead range. Tis an excellent marketing stategy. To use a parallel from another industry, think of MacDonalds without thinking Big Mac.

Anyway, as I have said elsewhere about their pricing policy, it suits me down to the ground. Also, the increased liklihood that GW will still be operational in five or ten years time suits me too.

In tourniments, you have a tighter idea of what you might be facing, and can plan your own army accordingly. Unless you have a capping system in force, so only 20% of tourniment applicants can field Space Marine armies. Would this work?

[Senigar]

I play Space Wolves, and I get alittle bored of facing marines after marines. I'd love to get to play tyranids or eldar or something else. But I just deal, dont complain and enjoy the game because I have alot of fun just playing in general, against whatever and its also usually fun if your with nice friendly people. I agree with Hard Aun's post above. And another thing to remember is while most people start with SM, they usually start other armies too. Because as stated SM are a good starting foundation, and good atleast imo for learning your play style because their versatility.

[The_Giant_Mantis]

Okay..

Firstly there is no way any of the other races will beat SM for sales. You could pour tons of promotion into eldar, and still noone would buy them (unless you went through and completely rewrote the character of the race and its combat style) this is because they're intricate, fragile, difficult for players with simple ethics and mentality to emphasise with, and overall require a more skilled player to use effectively (unless you cheese out.) Remove that, however, and they might as well be space marines anyway. You've just stripped what makes the eldar army interesting.

Besides, space marines really aren't that great gamewise, you know.. They're quite beatable.

Focusing on a flagship product is, as Hard Aun points out, not a bad strategy at all. GW is a serious commercial company now, and it needs to act like one otherwise, in a few years time, it won't be there. They have a commercial responsibility to keep the players happy, because the players are the ones buying the products, and since most players are space marine players, it's logical that they should get priority when it comes to promotion and updates. This is financial reality, it's not just arbitary choice.

I agree they could do a lot with some of the other power armoured races, but SoB and DH are difficult to play, they'll never be suitable for the small kids looking for a first army. Personally, I think SoB need plastic models, and possibly a bit of 'prettying up', it's low and despicable, but it's also highly effective when it comes to marketting.

[citybeatnik]

You have to admit, seeing five year old Little Timmy getting an Emperor's Children or Sisters of Battle army together would be funny, like a greek tragedy is.
'Mommy, what's up with my daemonette? She looks weird.'
'Well, you see Timmy, when a Keeper of Secrets and a Dark Eldar Archon love each other very much...'
or
'Mommy, why is that one lady with the whip whipping the lady with the big sword?'
'Well, you see Timmy, when a Sister Repentia and a Repentia Mistress love each other very much...'

In all honesty, Space Marines are also the 'safest' army for new (read: young) players to start out on. There's the background fluff of being eight-foot tall superheroes defending humanity (even though that's supposed to be the ImpGuard's job), and there's less things for the mother of Little Timmy and his friends to object over. It also sends a good marketing image. Which one would get you more people you'd want to spend time playing the game with? A tall guy in blue power armour or a tall topless chick? The latter might bring in the older crowd, but, er, I'm not sure if I'd want to play some of those guys.
But then, I started off on orks, so it's all moot to me. :lol:

[Crazy_Girl]

Originally Posted by citybeatnik

In all honesty, Space Marines are also the 'safest' army for new (read: young) players to start out on. There's the background fluff of being eight-foot tall superheroes defending humanity (even though that's supposed to be the ImpGuard's job), and there's less things for the mother of Little Timmy and his friends to object over.

I dont think they are good for young kids. A society that exicutes people who have contact with aliens, they feed people with higher mental abilites to the emporer's chair or put them into a Chior and then on top of it all are so dogmaticly religous that they fail to see anything but what thery want to is not good.

Thats why I hate SMs and the Imperium in Genral. I like the Elder, Tau and Orks.

[Nurglitch]

Originally Posted by Crazy_Girl

I dont think they are good for young kids. A society that exicutes people who have contact with aliens, they feed people with higher mental abilites to the emporer's chair or put them into a Chior and then on top of it all are so dogmaticly religous that they fail to see anything but what thery want to is not good.

First of all - the Marine chapters are probably the only agents of Imperium showing some ethics and morals. I'd like to remind you that Space Wolves furiously opposed the Inquisition's handling of Armageddon's population after the Black Crusade and that Ragnar has never forgiven =I= for that atrocity. Other such case is the fate of one of the chapters - can't recall the name - which dared oppose another Inquisition genocide. It is now nearly extinct after a series of unexplainable "accidents". If you read the fluff you will find that the Marines are usually very moral - for the M41 that is.

As to Marines being dogmatically religious - you've got that one wrong again. They are completely at odds with Ministorum, as they do not believe their Emperor to be a god. They revere him as the greates man that has ever lived, the epitome of what mankind is capable of, but not as a god. They are fully and totally devoted to preserving manking as a race.

Originally Posted by Crazy_Girl

Thats why I hate SMs and the Imperium in Genral. I like the Elder, Tau and Orks.

Oh yes. The Eldar who will slaughter anything and anyone - soldiers, settlers, whatever - who has stumbled upon a wrong planet (neither used nor cared about by the Eldar). The Tau with their "this planet is ours now. Drop your pants and bend over or die" and the Orks who just butcher every living thing in their path. That's some dazzling display of logic there.

[Houston]

Well, it is easy to fall in love with Space Marines. I hate them, by and large, and even I considered starting up a Marine army at some point. On their own, they are a very cool concept and a great looking mini range with some very iconic fluff.

But what makes them equally easy to hate is what they have done to this game. As I said, on their own, they are great, but what makes them deplorable is the utter over-saturation of them in 40k. As has been pointed out by so many posters above, the number of 40k players that regularly or exclusively play Marines is anywhere between 50% and 90%, depending on where you live. Why? Why why why?

Yes, they're a cool army, but that's not to say other armies aren't cool. Newbies and veteran players alike get sucked in by the Marines so readily. It is detestable. Personally I can't stand the argument that "They are the best army to begin with", or "They are the ultimate Newbie army". Ugh. Any army can be a newbie army. Even something as complex as DE, Eldar, or Daemonhunters. So long as a player is smart and up for a challenge, they can learn the game with any race. The upside to a newbie choosing some army other than Marines is that they have to work harder to win from the get go, and therefore one could argue that they are actually testing themselves more and refining their playstyle to a greater degree than a Marine player. In politically-uncorrect words: they can't rely on a sissy army that makes it easier to win with, and thus become better players because they actually have to cultivate some strategy in order to win.

I have the utmost respect for non-Marine players of any kind, and I've always felt we need as many of them as we can. So I guess we anti-Marine players have to spread the word. We have to counter GW's SM brainwashing tactics and steer as many newbies off of marines as we can. Otherwise, this already awful problem will just keep getting worse.

Well, at least we non-Marine players can take pride in the armies we play.


Space Marines suck.