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Is it just me or is anyone else notice of all the new players making cheese armies?
I dont see any new players starting armies that dont have easily explotited stratigies and rules. Since I started play WHFB I know well 6 other people just starting to play (as in started this year) and out of the 6 5 of them play cheese armies. Here are the armies they picked and a bref summiery of their tactics:
1. Lizardmen (48 Blowpipe Skinks, Scout, 96 posioned attacks on turns 1 and/or 2)
2. Lizardmen (3 Skink Presits, hide under water under bridges, spells without line of sight)*
3. Lizardmen (Combine both above with less Blowpipe Skinks)*
4. Chaos Undivided (112 WS4 I 4 Flailweilders in a game less than 1000pts)
5. Dogs of War (4 Units of 20 duelists (Unchargeable) as a screen)
I think its becuase they do it becuase they dont have the expeence better players have so make up for it by using cheese lists. There has to be some way to deal with this.
*At the GW 2 of the 3 tables have bridges, one of the tables all the bridges are connected to the table so we cant remove them if thats the table we are given for the game.
you are right. Cheese armies are generally unfair. Once I was playing an experienced 40k player who feilded 6 ful platoons of IG shock troopers. He was completely massacred by the orbital strike I set up, but he always seemed to be smiling. Cheese should be left alone, because talking about how cheap it is provokes people to start a cheese army. Chese is fun but can be completely useless at times. Other times it can massacre your forces. Either way, They are fun to play as and fun to play against. This subject has been talked about many times in my experience and unfortunately nothing has changed for the better. So I think we should just drop it and leave it for dead. :cool:
Alright, maybe I'm just an ignoramus, but what is a cheese army? One that isn't bland and vanilla? A force that is one-sided or heavy in a certain troop type? Or is it just an army composition that you yourself don't like?
I understand that these armies may seem non-conformist, but why does that make them bad? Every army has a weakness, even "cheese" armies, and the game is balanced enough that there isn't a single army that, even with the right composition, can whomp every other army 100% of the time.
Play two or three games against such an army and you'll be able to determine it's weaknesses. If that player with the three Skink Priests is beating you every time you play him/her just because he/she's hiding a few magic users under some bridges then you've most likely got some problems with your army too. I'm not criticising your tactical ability but magic users won't win many games by themselves.
It takes an army to win, and three Skinks do not an army make.
Last edited by Zanzibar; September 20th, 2005 at 01:53.
I'll just make a low-key resolution to oversee this thread, in case anyone else joins in and it gets inflamed ...
Ryan Dancey, Vice President of Wizards of the Coast, believed that TSR failed because of "...a near total inability to listen to its customers, hear what they were saying, and make changes to make those customers happy." Are you listening, Games Workshop ?
Heheheh, I've seen the word Cheese get banned on some forums for the inflammation it can cause. Generally, "Cheese" can be defined as any repetitive combination of powerful applications of a certain aspect of a game, just for the sake of winning. It really doesn't take a lot of forethought to create cheese, just rules exploitation... Case in point: Tyranid custom hive fleet creation rules from the previous codex. People at one of the local gaming stores refused to play against a custom hive fleet because there had been several people come into the shop with their own hive fleets that consisted of not much more than hordes of 4-point gaunts with scything talons. Where's the fun in that? Hundreds of models on the table that would make even a Comissar cringe in fear. I must say this though, thanks to the cheesy, beardy players out there. They make our gaming experience 100% better by pointing out rules flaws that otherwise get unnoticed and completely ignored. Without them, GW would not publish revisions quite as frequently, I think.
Cheese is a lovely dairy product that is produced in droves in wisconsin... oh you meant a cheese army. heh, heh... :-D
It's not Raymond Luxury Yacht, It's pronounced throat wobbler mangrove.
<img src='http://arago4.tn.utwente.nl/stonedead/tv-series/pictures/fc-22/thumbnails/raymond-luxury-yacht.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' />
My elvish name is Maeglin Meneldur.
In general, the view is that cheesy armies are ones that go against the fluff to exploit the loopholes or weaknesses in the rules for personal gain. An example would be the Iron Warriors player who just loads out on Obliterators and basilisks while keeping the troops choice at two 5-man squads with bolters. In other words, exploiting the 2 troop rule by the least possible amount, then exploiting the "Take as many Oblits as possible" special rule for IW.
Cheesy armies are not truly illegal, just a bit lopsided and in contrast to the spirit of the game. They can be beaten, as Zanzibar states, but just seem...wrong. For me, when I see these lists I find it a little bit sad. It's taking the game and focusing only on the winning, when the real experience is the gaming, camraderie, painting, etc.
Usually the people who field them are only interested in winning, and rarely are much fun to play against. I have been beaten so many times I lost count, but I really don't play to win. I play to have fun, to laugh when my devastators shoot every missile 30 feet into the ground in front of them, when my termies show up 3 turns late and make up for it by teleporting into a wall. Now THAT'S funny!
Marion: You're not the man I knew ten years ago.
Indiana: It's not the years, honey, it's the mileage.
For the last time, there are
NO FEMALE SPACE MARINES!!!!!
I agree with RJSuperFreaky's point that some gamers just play to win, and I don't have a problem with it. I too play to have fun but in general I like assembling and converting models more than any other part of the hobby, and I view painting as a bit of a chore (though I enjoy that too). Thus, my interest lies primarily in army building, but I understand that not everybody cares so much about that aspect of the hobby, and some are quite content to slap two or three colors onto their out-of-the-box models and hit the games table with an army crafted to win. If I beat someone like this, it's just that much sweeter.
All cheese armies have a way to be beaten. Generally, if they take a bunch of units so they are uber at one aspect (eg.CC) then they are weak at another (eg. Ranged). The way to beat them is not by trying to match their strength in the cheesed up area, but play on their weakness in the weak area.
Hordes of Genestealers? See how they like 200 lasgun shots and a couple of Ordnance templates.
Wall of lasguns? See how they like a couple of units of Terminators popping in to say hello behind their lines.
Every army has it's weakness, just find it, and they'll soon be reconsidering they're 'cheese' list.
BTW- This is my 100th post, WOOT!
I'm sorry but I nor anyone else I know spends $920 (CND) on troops, more so when it needs to be a 4000pts game to feild them. Your logic is flawed.Originally Posted by dr_nick22