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But loves sculptors, collectors and painters.
I mean, seriously, outside of price, all I see that people ***** about GW are about the game, and how new editions screw them over, make their units useless, obeselete, unusable, or are just a excuse to release new versions of original well loved models....
I mean, if you are a gamer, you normally get screwed when A) a new race that comes out with an unfair advantage a new edition comes out C) when some race you don't play gets new units or new rules that kicks your race's ass D) when your race is dropped (eaten by 'nids, for example) E) you bought a supplement which becomes obeslete within 2 weeks of the release.
If you are a sculptor, collector or painter who largely buy the minis because you like them, A) a new race means more minis to admire and work with a new edition means all the units get revamped, aka more minis, and you can keep your old ones for conversions or just because you like them. C) more minis with parts you can use D) an excuse to convert your race to something else. E) fairly unusual minis because not that many people will buy obselete stuff. X3
Just felt like this was something I had to say. XD
Granted, I first got into WH because I wanted to build huge dioramas, then because I wanted to convert units. There's a game component too, which can only be a bonus because turn based games are my favourite. X3
Not that I intend to build a WHFB merc company based off Shining Force.
haha yeah sad truth that gamers have to face..
but then again, I play eldar, since 2/3rd edition rule sets.. it doesnt mind me, as i can play against a lot of armies. I do not find anything that is new, to be overpowered in anyway. They are just altered and semi buff from original. I can still handle them normally.
Games Workshop doesn't hate gamers, it just treats them like any marketing scam does in any large firm run by shareholders. Take this gem for example:
In the UK, the Tyranid Hive Tyrant with two Tyrant Guard is £50. That's a month's household shopping for an average family of two adults, two children under 16 and a dog and cat. The "starter sets" of a box, glue and a brush are more expensive than buying the separate items. These little prizes are designed to make the hobby "easier for younger members". Their superglue is about £4, whereas it is only £2 for excellent industrial stuff in hardware shops (this sort has held my Dragon Ogre Shaggoth together for three months now, with droppages and it's still held tight).
How can the main fan gamer base in the UK (ages 12-21) afford this? How pointless are GW's marketing expectations? How does a company run by shareholders and suits expect to sell to children? It's like Calvin Klein or similar running a huge campaign to try to get the under-11s to buy their products. It would be considered immoral around the world, yet GW does it and everyone gets all wet about it.
I enjoy the rules and games with friends, and have many models from years of collecting and playing in all the rules. However I now have stopped, as have all my gaming friends because we can't afford tings like £36 for six pieces of plastic the size of a credit card (Tyranid Carnifex sprue at £6 a go for two weapons). Are these clowns trying to destroy their own company? People who defend GW wonder why GW gets so much bad press.
Anyone else care to offer an explanation?
(sorry if this got a bit out of hand, I know what you mean when you think modellers get all the credit. Modellers unwittingly advertise GW products, like a t-shirt)
Last edited by adamwelton; January 16th, 2006 at 09:31.
Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank. Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
You know I've always thought the high cost and constant change of rules and minis is a good thing seen from a gamer and collector's point of view.
I suppose it could be a BIT cheaper but still I think high cost gives you more pride in owning a cool army. If a squad of Space Marines cost 3 pounds you would have so many more gamers who didn't take it seriously with unpainted armies and you would have LOTS more snotty nosed kids at tournies going 'what does this one do?'. As for the constant development of new minis. I think it is exellent. I love when new minis come out. Nobody is forcing you to buy them as GW rules state that you can use any minis no matter how old.
This was a short post 'cause I'm on my way to work, but I hope you see my point. I'm just one of the few who doesn't hate GW for the high prices.
Oh and BTW I'm not a spoilt rich kid or anything. In fact I'm a struggling university student. Just in case you thought that was my reason for these views...
Originally Posted by adamwelton
I hate this cost aguement, it is tedious... Warhammer and other GW things are hobbies. We live in the 21st century, everything is expensive nowadays:cry:
Why don't you try golf then and pay the same amount for a metal pole or skate bording and pay the same amount for a glorified piece of plywood on wheels. So yes GW is expensive but so is everything else.
equation: consumer+game=fun, therefore fun+product=money
Frankly, compared to most grown up hobbies out there, GW is cheap. I mean, if you buy maybe one boxed set every few months and a blister every fortnight, it's fairly affordable. It's only expensive when you try to buy your entire dream army at one go. Besides, part of the fun is painting what you have, while waiting for the next month or week where you get some more.
And if you find things like 'fex parts too expensive? Grow a brain and do conversions with putty or plasticard. It's not hard, you know. :/
And to a extent, Bobahat's right. People value the GW minis and games because of their prices. It's like art. For example, a person who can't appreciate art, can at least respect it's price, and from there, understand that it's of some value.
You can play Warhammer with coins, paper cutouts on a bare table.
Why don't you?
Me, I do it because the minis were the reason I started in the first place.
I don't really agree with these three...I don't believe any race or army has an unfair advantage over another, and feel like the new editions help overall game balance. Also I don't think that newer codexes are more powerful than older ones, they generally strengthen some things and weaken some things within the army, providing overall balance.Originally Posted by Swordy
Maybe its just me?
Of course you are right, a large comercial based organisation clearly has the ability to think as a single entry and the hormonal capacy and emotional capacity to feel hate, these are not comercial decisions at all, why did I not see it before, a job for rentakill if ever I saw one
Everything you have been told is a lie!
No, people just think they get screwed over. GW make a lot of mistakes, it's true.. but I wouldn't say they have ever seriously screwed things up in terms of balance, except perhaps by failing to update as quickly as possible when the new rules come out.Originally Posted by Swordy
Even then, there are no unbalanced armies, really.. you just have to develop different strategies to play them.The squats, right?Originally Posted by Swordy
To be honest, the squats needed to go.. I mean, hells angels dwarves in space, with leather jackets, swilling beer and mining? What the hell? How would that fit into modern, gothic 40k?
They may eventually do something with the Demiurg, and there's nothing to stop you proxying them now. Those guys are a much better fluff fit.. If squats hadn't been axed, they would have needed a total fluff overhaul anyway.You have a legitimate concern.. GW do often make mistakes in that department. However, some of their new stuff does seem to be shaking off a few of the writing demons which have always plagued them.Originally Posted by Swordy
I don't think so either, but I'm just pointing out what I came across when I went on my WH40k surfing binges. Well, and reactions to recent White Dwarves as well.Originally Posted by HorusianThat topic title was entirely in jest. And if you had read my posts after, you would have realised that. I was being ironic about the way people ranted about GW by mimicing them. Personally, I think GW's just another company that make great sculptures I can play games with.Originally Posted by CheredanineI'm just saying what I read online, though I wasn't really bothered by the last one. I mean, so long it comes out with cool models, I don't care. Granted, I don't want anything game breaking...Originally Posted by The_Giant_Mantis
I'm not saying, "I think GW hates gamers". I mean, yes, I did say it, but if you can read between the lines, etc etc, I was really talking about how awesome the hobby is if you just focused on the pros, which are largely for the sculptor/artist/collector/painter/fluff fanatic that reads codexes for fluff. For e.g "OMG COOL NEW MODELS" or "OMG OLD MODELS I CAN CONVERT TO FIT NEW CODEX" etc.