Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Alright, This has been driving me nuts because of all of the controversy on the subject. I am about to start a campaign against a modern day Earth, and we were trying to figure out the stats for:
M16 S3 AP5 Rng36" Heavy 2 or Rapid fire
H & K MP5(Hollowpoints) S4 AP5 Rng 18" Assault 1
AK 47 ???
M1A2 Abrams cannon(HEAT round) S8 AP3 Rng ---- Hvy1 Armor ???
Commanche Hellfire missile S7 AP4 Rng 48" Armor 10-10-10?
HUMMVEE Armor 9-9-9
Tow missiles S8 AP3 Rng---
MLRS(in general) .....
basically everything that would be used against an invading army
and then the Nukes, small Tactical ones S9 AP3 Range battlefield
It's gonna be a fun thing, but we need to get these stats ironed out first.
I believe this is the right place to post it. I'd Appreciate any feed bac, thanks
M16 should definitely be rapid fire. Heavy?
HK MP5: Hollowpoints are almost worthless against body armor. No AP value. I'd call SMG range at 12". (SMG's fire pistol ammunition and should have pistol ranges)
AK-47, just so you know, (most people don't) was updated in the 70's to the AK-74. Kalishnikovs are inaccurate weapons (esp. compared to the M16A2) so I'd give a shorter range than the M16, but make it Assault 2 to represent the full-automatic firing option.
Don't forget the Abram's SABOT round. Think Rail Gun.
TOW - range=LOS. Those things can fly for miles.
"and then the Nukes, small Tactical ones S9 AP3 Range battlefield"
What are you kidding? Getting shot by a tank is almost as bad as getting nuked? Logical fallacy. I'd take out the very idea of tactical nuclear arms. The tiniest ones would still blow apart an amount of terrain greater than the average Warhammer battle scene.
On the regular weapons issue..
M16: str3 ap6 range30 rapidfire
why ap6: The M16 fires a very light round, it'not likely to penetrate very much...
MP5K: str4 ap- range12 pistol
reasoning: about range Dawnfire is right. Against unarmored targets hollowpoint rounds can do a lot of damage but it can't penetrate armor hence the str4 ap-
AK-47: str3 ap5 range24 assault1
The AK fires a heavier round (7.65 i think) thus the ap5. If you ever try to fire a rifle of the same caliber as the AK, say HK G3 (nato 7.62) you'll find out that it is practically impossible to hit anything on full auto, it's just a waste of rounds, so I would only give it Assault1...
Missile Launcher: Use the stats for the 40K missilelauncher..
Browning M2, Heavy MG (12.7mm/cal.50): str6 ap4 range48 heavy2
M60: str4 ap5 range36 heavy3
my two cent's, hope it's useful
Note that the G3 is 7.62x51mm though, while the AK is 7.62x39mm. The G3 is blowback operated, the AK is gas operated. You can't really compare them.
Also note that bolters fire cal.75 explosive ammo, still they are only S4. Today's weapons will mostly be S3 compared to them.
M16 would fire a bit more than 2 shots, maybe you need to invent a new rule, rapid fire but instead of 2 shots it fire 3 when rapid firing.
Maybe the Ap values on some should be higher because even though weaponry is not as strong in the 41st millenium body armour is not as strong either.
Imperial guard flak armour is probably stronger than body armour that the army uses now.
Off topic but there is now a section for discussing the lord of the rings game, it's in the 'other games' section. Just saying this in case you didnt know
Okay now depending on the armor the assaulters are using against these weapons, would depend on the kind of armor penetration you'd give them
Remember the rounds from an AK-47 will punch right through a standard kevlar vest they spin at a lower speed and don't expand as quickly, and if you're going up against flak jackets, they'll punch through those, depending on what armor level it is, if you're comparing it to an armor level 3 flak jacket, it would pierce through all areas but the vitals since they're covered by stab plates.
Also if you want to use the MP5, I'd give them manstoppers instead, or black talon rounds, since SWAT teams still occasionally use them, for the manstoppers give them a penetration 1 lower than the AK-47 for black talons a low AP factor with a high strength factor since they're built similar to a hollowpoint but they're made to tear more flesh as they expand.
For the M16 I'm not sure if I'd classify it more under rapid fire or assault, it functions as both, now if you want to go rapid fire, model it after the AR-15 or M-4 instead, they're lighter and just as accurate.
As for the missile launcher use the AT-4 as your base model, it's a decent weapon and still in common use, also it can be mounted on vehicles for a fast attack weapon.
Yeah and as for tactical nukes I'd have to agree, take them out, absolutely no way you could use them, even the ones the U.S. military tried to make were too damn powerful, if you used them you had to get the round as far away from you as humanly possible while still getting near the target, and that was not a whole lot bigger than the standard rocket propelled grenade.
And for the abrams you could load it up with DU rounds, AP2 Str9, basically as long as it hits armor whatever it hits is dead, there have only been 3 reported survivors of a DU round, and they almost didn't make it.
Or you could say it's about 10 years in the future, and the US military has completed their rail gun (yeah it's big... way big... I've seen it...)
Basically it works by sliding a long sabot round down a barrel shaped like an I-beam, once the round leaves the barrel the sabot splits and out comes a foot long javelin made of tungston.
Yeah it's nasty travels at about mach 3, punches through 4' of steel, leaves a crater, and a blast wake behind it.
You can't move the furniture anymore
And I'm not gonna trip and fall
Going for the door
Fuzz - Helen Keller
What about pistols? We have some powerful pistols in this day and age. .50 Cal Depleted-uranium tipped shells from a modified Desert Eagle can do in even lightly armored vehicles.
Henceforth no man shall set foot upon the world, and all around shall be set sentinals to ward away unwary spacecraft. We must accept that this place is lost to us forever, and is now the eternal habitation of abomination.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>another annoying thing i hate: 47,000 similies in one post. just thoght id throw that in there and see if anybody else hates it as much as i do.</div>
There are no depleted-uranium rounds for the .50 DE. I'm not even sure if there's Tungsten rounds for the DE. However I do know that they make tungsten rounds, APDS, for the .50 HMG, not even those are DU rounds. (It's is not cost-effective to use DU in such a "small" round)
Actually, the Ak-47 and 74 are both quite accurate. It just depends on the shooter, the M-16 should have an overheat, except that if you roll a 1 it cant be fired next turn, because they are the most unreliable pieces of crap that was ever developed. Also, why not think about more suibtle weapons. Like an H&K UMP.
RG 18" Str 4 AP 6 Assault 3.
"Actually, the Ak-47 and 74 are both quite accurate."
Got a low standard of expectations do we? Granted, the level of inaccuracy at close range (like in urban warfare) isn't all that significant, but historically battlefields have been in the countryside. You can slap a scope onto an M16 and snipe at people from 500 meters away. Try that with a Kalishnikov. Larger shells, (7.62mm v. 5.56mm) less spin, shorter barrel (400mm v. 510mm) = less accuracy and effective range. The AK also has very little in the way of recoil compensation. Ever see someone fire one of those and they have their off-hand on top of the gun rather than under it? That's to hold the barrel down. It's terrible on fully automatic fire. The recoil on the M16, comparatively, is almost not even there, and there is no full auto switch on the A2.
And for the record, the M16 is perfectly reliable. But it is fragile and can malfunction if it gets too dirty or takes a firm smack against something hard. "Never drop your weapon, and clean it after combat" prevents most of these problems.