What makes a winning gamer? - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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View Poll Results: What makes a winning gamer

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  • Good list/power list builder?

    5 9.43%
  • Good deployment?

    0 0%
  • Good Tactics?

    9 16.98%
  • Luck/"dice gods"

    6 11.32%
  • Mixture of any 4....

    33 62.26%
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  1. #1
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    What makes a winning gamer?

    Just keep reading about these fairy tale tactics that people post all the time. I don't think 40K is a very "tactical" game. I have always thought it boiled down to list hammer. I honestly think that if you play Fluff and handicap yourself, you play to lose. I can't count the times I've played people that said, "Well, err my list was fluffy and I couldn't deal with all those Bikes." You powergamed me.

    My question is, what makes a winning gamer? Even if you hate the dude because you think he is a cheesy puff.


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  3. #2
    Senior Member Carot's Avatar
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    Tactics can be a very big deal, or no deal at all.

    Much like fantasy, it varries on what kind of opponents you play against.

    If you put 2 younger players together, the better list will win. But if you put 2 veteran players against each other, all kinds of things will occur, due to better knowledge of rules AND better knowledge of armies.

    40k is no more list-hammer than it's fantasy counterpart. We're all working with a stat line that is weak to X and strong vs Y.

    People who are experienced in one usually start out biased towards the other's rules. And they always fall towards the one that appeals most to them.

    At least, that's the way I see it.
    :ninja:
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  4. #3
    Slave to the flesh The_Outsider's Avatar
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    Someone who "gets" how an army works.

    Someone who has an understanding of the core mechanics of how an army works can (over a little time) use even units that are generally considered useless and win well.

    Like necrons for example, not many people actually properly understand how the army gels together and a such they phase a lot. Someone who understands necrons does not really need to worry about phase out because they will never be put in a situation where it is a limiting factor.

    DE (dark eldar) are the best army to demonstrate this, when someone gets DE they can literally wipe the floor with just about anything.

  5. #4
    Game Over boys macewind's Avatar
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    I think a real winning gamer is measured by how he accepts defeat.

  6. #5
    Senior Member aetherguy881's Avatar
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    I think I's just if the person enjoys playing their fluffy army.

    What's great is when a fluff gamer destroys a power gamer.
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  7. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by macewind View Post
    I think a real winning gamer is measured by how he accepts defeat.
    A profound statement. Sometimes you can feel a little downbeat if you get trashed, and the important thing is not to be a sore loser

    Ciao

    Stonehambey

  8. #7
    The Fallen Cheredanine's Avatar
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    by "Winner" you appear to mean someone who wins as many games as possible? not someone who enjoys it most, or gets the most out of it,

    Then clearly the powergamer class is the area you are working to

    As a generalisation you are talking people with one trick pony armies and the ability to warp the wording of the rulebook to their own end, who generally lack friends and dont realyl care about others

    the other possible set are those who are good in all areas, fluff, painting, army selection, tactics, deployment, geberalyl intelligent pramatists or innovators in Belbin terms with a lot of experiance and logical minds

    WHY??????
    Everything you have been told is a lie!


  9. #8
    Senior Member Shoal07's Avatar
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    Good list?
    List matters. A horribly unbalanced list will have it’s counter. A one trick pony will loose when the pony has a stroke on turn 1. A fluffy list of poor units will struggle. A good balanced list will always have a chance to succeed. A powergame list is most of the time easier to beat if you have a well-balanced army. Unfortunately, most people that think they have a balanced list really don’t. Most play the army to it’s primary strength, and when that’s countered, they loose.

    Deployment?
    In 40k, deployment matters, but 40k is more forgiving then Fantasy. In fantasy, the game can be won or lost in deployment. In 40k, there’s always a chance to recover from poor deployment, but you are making your life much harder.

    Tactics?
    Yes, please. Too many people play with poor tactics (suicide units, moving out in the open, not supporting units i.e. leaving them stranded, misusing units, etc). Of course they matter; you can give a young, inexperienced player a powegamer list, and he will still loose some if not all of the time vs an experienced, older player with a balanced list. Everyone uses tactics, some people use really good tactics, and you’ll know the difference when you play them.

    Luck?
    It is a part of the game, but in all, dice do average out over time. Your only hope is that “time” includes the 6 rounds in the game you’re in. Sometimes, it doesn’t.

    Order? IMHO:
    Tactics / Good list > Deployment > Luck
    R.I.P. Iron Warriors, you will be missed.



  10. #9
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    First, anyone who wins regularly is always called a "powergamer". Me I'm a 50/50 guy.
    I've seen a dude at my store play with the Fluffiest crap lists all the time and win. I think he plays idiots and I can't explain his success but heh. I just don't see these grand tactical schemes people talk about. Uh not standing up and getting shot. Seems obvious to me. Devastators as assault troops...uh not what they are for....I think people read more into the "playing" of the game then there actually is. Don't get me wrong, I love 40K. I play once a week(as many games as I can fit into 6 hours) and paint at least once a week but the hobby side is different.

    Accepting defeat with your chin up is still defeat.

    I am just asking what makes some people winners most of the time.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Shoal07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Davesnothereman View Post
    First, anyone who wins regularly is always called a "powergamer". Me I'm a 50/50 guy.
    I've seen a dude at my store play with the Fluffiest crap lists all the time and win. I think he plays idiots and I can't explain his success but heh. I just don't see these grand tactical schemes people talk about. Uh not standing up and getting shot. Seems obvious to me. Devastators as assault troops...uh not what they are for....I think people read more into the "playing" of the game then there actually is. Don't get me wrong, I love 40K. I play once a week(as many games as I can fit into 6 hours) and paint at least once a week but the hobby side is different.

    Accepting defeat with your chin up is still defeat.

    I am just asking what makes some people winners most of the time.
    Tactics aren’t about grand schemes; they’re about using each unit effectively and smart. As you said, there’s a player with a “crappy fluffy” list and he still stomps people most of the time. As I said, that’s because most people don’t understand good tactics. “I’m going to DS this 110pt crisis suit to take out a 125 bassie” sounds good, but it’s bad tactics. Why not try to employ your 110 pt suit in a situation where it eliminates 125pts and is still alive? That would be good tactics. The problem? That takes thought, planning, strategy and foresight beyond the next turn. When the enemy is reacting to you, not you to him, you’ve won, and used good tactics. Taking and holding the initiative, when it’s not given via winning the “I win turn” is key to 40k. Check out my latest battle report. I lost my Havocs right off the bat (they are a keystone unit for me) due to poor deployment. I turned the battle around by turn 2 and flanked my enemy. Needless to say, it became a slaughter. Check it out.

    http://209.200.246.44/~librariu/foru...ad.php?t=87436
    R.I.P. Iron Warriors, you will be missed.



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