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  1. #1
    I'm Back! Koss's Avatar
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    special character maker

    i don't know if this has been done before, but i think it could be cool if every player was allowed to dezign there very own Special character to represent thier supriem general or a renown heroe in thier army.

    so here are the rules i came up with. tell me what you think.

    Designing your own special character:

    You receive 1 point per every base wound your character has to spend on the following categories. Note, a maximum of 2 points may be spent in any one category:

    Category one, enhanced characteristics (each characteristic may be augmented once.):
    You may pay one point to increase one of the following stats. These are permanent additions to the base stats of the character.
    +1 weapon skill
    + 1 Bs (max5)
    + 1 Str
    + 1 T
    + 1 W
    + 1 I
    + 1 A

    Category two, Wargear: you may spend one point for one of the following. rules for wargear still aply
    - Servo arm
    - Plasma gun or melta gun
    - Nemesis force weapon
    - Force field (4+ invul.)
    - Psychic hood (psychers only)

    Category three, Special abilities: you may spend one point for one of the following
    - Feel no pain
    - Furious charge
    - Blessed (may not be instant killed)
    - Hard to kill (as we’ll be back)
    - true grit(but for any two handed ranged weapon)

    This character is a 0-1 choice for your army and can only be fielded in games of 1500pt+. if your character falls on the battlefield, the opponent automatically gains 500 victory points.

    Last edited by Koss; February 14th, 2007 at 23:37.
    That is not dead which may eternal lie,
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  3. #2
    Member Silvanest's Avatar
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    i assume this is probably for a space marine special char. but that beins said i think that if you realy wanted to you can just name your HQ choice after you've kitted it out.

    i think that most of those choices (except the stat increases) can be just taken as armory upgrades (maybe not in all the same codex) so if your realy wanting to, and your friend or someone agrees you could just pay the cost of each upgrade and make sure its slightly more fair.
    "Moral Victory! the enemy ran away at the sight of my roting, spikey, diseased, awesomeness... wait.. what?" ~ Theyak

  4. #3
    I'm Back! Koss's Avatar
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    176 (x6)

    Quote Originally Posted by Silvanest View Post
    i assume this is probably for a space marine special char. but that beins said i think that if you realy wanted to you can just name your HQ choice after you've kitted it out.

    i think that most of those choices (except the stat increases) can be just taken as armory upgrades (maybe not in all the same codex) so if your realy wanting to, and your friend or someone agrees you could just pay the cost of each upgrade and make sure its slightly more fair.
    well what i was thinking was that people could make thier HQ different then the norm and customise it, more than just naming it. its meant for all armies and anyone can take one as long as the game is big enough and only if thier opponent gets one as well, to balance it out and make it more fair. the upgrades and special rules may be in some of the codexes, but my intention was that some peeps could take some stuff they normally couldn't. like normally a tau commander is not able to have a nemises force weapon and a servo arm, since its not in its codex, but w/ this he can. just meant to be fun and give players a chance to be creative and make some cool model.
    That is not dead which may eternal lie,
    for in strange aeons even death may die.

  5. #4
    Wher dat naked blue chik? Jaffar_Hasad's Avatar
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    Whoa whoa whoa what a minute. No way is a space marine getting we'll be back. At most have the bionix in wargear. Hard to kill is nothing like a marines arm crawling back to its body and reforming.
    Sleeping, not dead.
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  6. #5
    Torn ACL FTL ==Me=='s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexpape7 View Post
    like normally a tau commander is not able to have a nemises force weapon and a servo arm, since its not in its codex, but w/ this he can.
    That is wrong on so many levels:huh:

    Sorry to burst your bubble (:spell: ), but I am not a huge fan on these. Way too easily abused and not very clear I==M==HO.

    I think there were some character design rules floating around during Medusa V, maybe somebody could track them down.

    If you want a unique character, just make up some house rules with your gaming group of just use a stock character or special character and just rename it. After all, that's what characters are all about, your own representation on the board.
    Check out ==My== blog: www.bnhblog.blogspot.com

  7. #6
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    It won't work.

    It would bring about FAR more bad then good.

    GW bases balance at the army and overall game level, not the individual model level.

    You could do it, but to be fair you'd have to do it for all armies...
    and that would mean a differant system for each army...
    and since you're not a neutral party it would really mean GW would have to do it...

    Other games have done it and it's usually a bad idea. In 40k remember the VDR rules awhile back, it tended to be rife with abuse. You'd get that here only worse.

    As for just making unique characters, in friendlies you've always been able to just eye ball unique characters if wanting to use them, and then get opponents consent. Right now I'm working on a Striking Scorpion/Warlock mix for a specific scenario/story fight for 40k, as well as a modified Elite choice {the 20 pt one} Inquisitor for another one. When I design characters though, even for one off and even when I'm just doing it for others, I always get outside opinions. People tend to make their own stuff too strong/too cheap.

    I'd never ever use something like that, nor want something official and formulated made, for any kind of official play. And I'd never count a win or loss made with that kind of home made character as a real win or real loss, kind of like how if the Dallas Cowboys put on rocket skates and played the NY Giant wearing jet packs it'd be fun to see, but in no way a real football game that should count towards their seasonal record.

    Would just be a negative thing to the game to me, encouraging the wrong type of play both deliberatly and subconsiously if it became formal {alot of gamers would tend to try and make idealized versions of themselves, and that means they get a personal stake in the character, and that means folks who refuse to play it or who find ways to counter it will occasionally hurt feelings... maybe just to people who deserve it, but still not worth it}

    I vote just find the HQ or unit leader most like what you want, and give it a name.
    Last edited by BFGMidwesternPrisoner; February 15th, 2007 at 13:23.

  8. #7
    I'm Back! Koss's Avatar
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    despite everyone thinking that this is a freak of nature, i'll still give it a go at salvaging it.

    i tried to balance it out and make it less abusable, and changed how it worked.

    Designing your own special character:

    You may select upgrades from the following three catagories for your character. Note,only one thing may be bought from any one category:

    Category one, enhanced characteristics (each characteristic may be augmented once.):
    You may pay oto increase increase one of the following stats. if your character already has some kind of stat increase than that stat may not be further augmented
    +1 weapon skill: 5pt
    + 1 Bs (max5): 5pt
    + 1 Str: 10pt
    + 1 T: 10pt
    + 1 W: 15pt
    + 1 I: 15pt
    + 1 A: 15pt

    Category two, Wargear: you may spend one points for one of the following. rules for wargear still aply
    - Servo arm: 25pt
    - Plasma gun or melta gun: 10pt
    - Nemesis force weapon: 25pt
    - Force field (4+ invul.): 25pt
    if anyone has good ideas for additiions, suggest them.

    Category three, Special abilities: you may spend points for one of the following
    - Feel no pain: 10pt
    - Furious charge: 15pt
    - protection from instant kill: 35pt
    if you still have any suggestions please state them.

    This character is a 0-1 choice for your army and can only be fielded in games of 1500pt+. if your character falls on the battlefield, the opponent automatically gains 500 victory points.
    That is not dead which may eternal lie,
    for in strange aeons even death may die.

  9. #8
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    You're not likely going to make it functional. Let me take just a few attacks at the idea...

    1.) BS cap but no WS cap? BS at higher then 5 is far less of a game effector then a WS higher then 5. BS beyond 5 often does nothing, WS beyond 5 begins to make the unit harder to hit for elite CC units with WS 4+ which is substantially better of an effect.

    2.) A static point cost won't work on stats. An example, taking T4 to T5 is worth far more then taking T2 to T3. The first makes you immune to instant death from not just most but basically all non-vehcile mounted heavy weapons and makes you more survivable vs. virtually all troop killing heavy weapons and the usual S4 weapon of most armies all in one package, the second barely makes you more survivable to IG lasgun fire and has virtually no effect on heavy weapons instant death on you. Not worth the same.

    3.) Your wargear mimics the books, yet can be placed on models custom stat'd to make the most of it. Asking for twinkage. The more wounds a model has, the more his items becomes worth because the longer he can stay in the game and make the most of them... especially in certain MEQ armies (on Sv and T) when models move from 1 wound to multi wound.

    Honestly I'm sorry for having to play devils advocate here but the fact you're needing me to point some of these basic balance issues out makes me wish you the best of luck but I don't think you're quite understanding what you're doing here and it's overall impact on the game... I don't think it's any inherant flaw on your part, I just think you're so gung ho on doing these rules you're kind of blinding yourself to their flaws. Consider stepping back and trying again in a few days when you're not so personally invested in the idea.

    Then if you have to do this, take that step back, then so you can't say I didn't help you I'll do more then just critisize I'll kick out some hints...
    at LEAST, if you want to actually use this as anything resembling balance, you need an extra 5 points to the cost of all wargear, and I'd say an extra 5 points to the cost of WS beyond 5, and S/T/I beyond 4, all on top of what you're doing.

    Custom modified troops should always be pricier then a normal equivlant to offset the increased customization you have. This is one of the reason some of the old VDR rules worked (some obeyed this law) and some didn't (some costed about the same as the book vehicles yet could be infinatly more tweaked to their army).

    That is just to start. I still cannot imagine you'd make a version of this that'd I'd ever consent to being used against me in any formal game setting beyond an untracked friendly, and in that circumstance you wouldn't have to have a system I'd just ask to eyeball the character and yes/no it.

    I really am not trying to be a jerk to you here, it isn't just you, I truly feel no one short of GW/professional game devs could make rules remotely fairly doing what you want them to do, and even THEY have broken rules like this in the past. I commend you on your passion for the game, but the guys that do this for real have literally been doing it in some cases since before you were born (and if I recall right, they have one or two still around doing it from before I was born and I'm about 11 years your senior!), I don't think it will hurt you to take an extra week or two to sit back and look at what all you're doing will mean and I think you'll find yourself far happier with the results.
    Last edited by BFGMidwesternPrisoner; February 16th, 2007 at 01:07. Reason: it's what i do
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  10. #9
    Senior Member Lanrak's Avatar
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    Now I can fully understand gamers wanting to add even more options to a game with more options than any other, as reguard to flexibility in force/unit/model composition.
    Demanding lot 40k gamers arn't they?

    But because the 40k and WH do not have direct comparative values to assertain the effects in the game.
    But they rely on lots of complex stat interaction.So any stat can not be given a PV in isolation.

    What PV do you give STR 10+50pts?
    If the surrounding stats are WS 1 BS 1,T 2 I1,A1,Ld 5 Sv 6+.then the whole model is not worth 20pts!!:shifty:

    So the base statline has to be conciderd ,then the effect of the improvment ,in comparison to other units,etc,etc.

    Now I dont mind character having 'trophies',they took from enemy charaters.
    This specific weapon (cool conversion) counts as (pick a weapon from you own wargear,magic items list.)

    So by all means be as creative as you like with what the models look like,and the background.

    But the current PV and force composition is fragile enough.
    If a team of proffesionals struggle, then that should realy be a 'big neon sign' saying DANGER KEEP OUT.

    No offence intended.

    TTFN
    Lanrak.

  11. #10
    Fury of the Ages Solo's Avatar
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    Contrary to apparent popular belief, I reckon that this is a fantastic idea!

    That said, I think that it would work best with a starting stat line for each army.

    Eg. Imperial Guard Commander:

    And points are added on twice, eg. +2S = 10+15 = 25pts


    Base points - 20 Limit of 100pts spent to spend on upgrades.

    Basic Pts for +1 Pts for +2
    WS 3 5 10
    BS 3 5 5
    S 3 10 15
    T 3 10 20
    W 2 10 10
    I 3 5 10
    A 2 5 10
    Ld 8 1 5
    Sv 4+ (Armoury) (Armoury)

    Know what I mean? But for a Space Marine commander, things would be quite different...
    But I call to God, and the LORD saves me.
    Psalm 55:16

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