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Noble, barded horse, star lance, heavy armour, shield (goes with dragon princes)
Noble, BSB, banner of sorcery, great weapon, heavy armour (goes with spearmen)
Dragon mage, level 2, silver wand, armour of Caledor, sword of might
20 spearmen, full command
5 dragon princes, champ, musician
20 Phoenix Guard, full command
2 tiranoc chariots
2 bolt throwers
1999 points. The army seems a bit small.. Maybe the dragon mage is one best saved for larger battles, in favour of more troops. And now that I think about it, my magic defence is going to be pretty weak. there isn't really much room to play around in 2k battles... 2 units of infantry, 1 cav, 2 chariots, standard rare choices.
I'll probably make a list in a few days with a scroll cady instead of the dragon mage and see what I can get out of it. The dragon will obviously need to perform well for this army to succeed. I might even send it or the mounted noble out as mage hunters to even up the magic a bit.
I would point out a couple of things first of all:
1) I don't think the BSB can take a great weapon. It is a two handed weapon, and I can't see that being allowed with a BSB.
2) I don't think the dragon mage can take armour. As a mage he can only take armour designed for mages, and as we have none, he can't take any.
As for the army itself, I have the following suggestions:
a) Drop the command from the archers. I believe it is a waste of points
b) Make the Pheonix guard 15 strong. Any more than that and they will be the target of every piece of shooting, and although they are resistant, they are not invulnerable.
c) Change the Dragon mages kit to the following:
Gem of sunfire and Guardian Pheonix. That will make sure you get the flaming sword of rhuin when you need it!!
d) With the spare points get some equipment for the noble on horseback, say a lance and Temakador’s gauntlets. Any spare points could be spent on a small unit of shadow warriors, or perhaps a banner for the spearmen and pheonix guard.
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1) Yeah i'm pretty sure they can. There is nothing saying they can't, like in every other army book out there. Either it is a major stuff up by GW, or the BSB can take other equipment now.
2) I wasn't sure about that either.. I took it from the fact that the unit entry for his magic items says 'Any, up to 50 points'. He might not be able to though.
a) To be honest, I have no idea why that says full command for archers. Must have been a microsleep when I was typing the list up. I didn't pay the points for full command on the archers, and don't intend to use it, since I agree it is a waste of points.
b) That is definitely a possibility. I thought PG may need the extra rank, since they don't hit as hard in combat and won't be supported by a character. If I was going to reduce them, maybe 6x3 would be better than 5x3.. Not sure about unit sizes yet. Same with the spearmen, they may well be better off wider. 6x3, or even 7x3 rather than 5x4. I will have to experiment.
c) Gem of sunfire is useless. +2 to dice rolls for one turn only, lore of fire only? Why not spend 5 points less and get a powerstone, +2 dice, any lore, one use only.
d) Another screw up while typing. The mounted Noble does indeed have a lance. In fact, he has the star lance now that I check my list again. I just checked my list, and there are no other mistakes. I will edit it into my first post.
I think 20 spearmen is fine, I don't think loading up on spearmen or spreading them to 6 wide will help you one way or another. They're still core, and they're still str3, they do the same thing they always have done, and that is; hold mages hands. They just do it cheaper and better now with the asf.
PG you could drop to 18 maybe with a character. I don't think anything less would be as effective. They are also a great unit now, resilient, but not going to win any battles by themselves. They should stay put and not lose battles well, but I don't think you'll totally slay anything except little stuff. Personally, I would rather have my PG get shot at because then my other units will get a break.
I think the archers might be worthwhile this edition (not their points, but as a cheaper distraction and warmachine hunting group) Is a musician worth it?
I think your magic defense is too weak, and maybe the dragon mage is not very effective here. Even if he gets the sword of rhuin, you'll average 5-6wounds on the charge. You'll have to flank but may not get to, because you'll be outnumbered 4-1 in every encounter. A simple magic missile will kill your mage and then you'll be at the mercy of someone else's magic phase which you'll regret. i would almost warn against the dragon princes, or get them a magic resistance of some kind. They and the dragon will get targeted and a shooty list should be able to take them out easily before they get to charge. Then the opponent can take out the rest of the army with pure numbers. I think it's going to be really tough getting decent numbers in a HE army from now on. If you dropped the dragon mage, you could afford some swordmasters in which would draw fire and at least psych the enemy out allowing your other elements to be bolstered and make it into combat.
I dont know, I have been thinking about running spearmen in units of 18 or 24 (6x3 or 6x4) because even against toughness 4, 18 attacks will turn something into a pincushion. If you run into a toughness 3 army it gets even better. I watched a VC player charge his skeletons into a block of HE spearmen last week and he took 12 wounds.
I think that even though HE get all these specials, it still pays to get a couple nice solid blocks of spearmen.
"I am the architect of fate!"
I am pretty sure you can't take any other weapons if you take a BSB. Certainly not shields or 2 handed weapons. I think even a lance is out.
As for the mage I am certain about that. No armor for mages. Besides that even if you could take armor it would mean your mage is no longer allowed to cast spells. Not really what you want.
There is absolutely nothing restricting what equipment a bsb can take, so they can be armed just like any other noble, but with a bsb on top. Unlike the bsbs of other races, there are no clauses restricting equipment. Unless they FAQ it, that's how it should be read.
As for the list: It is a little small. You've spent a lot of points on characters, but haven't taken a lot of magical defence, which could hurt. You will end up having to play an extremely restricted refused flank for this army not to be surrounded and beaten up. Although.. that dragon will distract a lot of attention and those PG are going to take a lot to get them to move.
I'd suggest possibly taking the noble out of the dragon princes (they don't really need him) and possibly replacing him with a normal mage, or another unit of something (either white lions for flanking/holding a flank next to the bsb or shadow warriors). The mage would double the effectiveness of your dragon mage as your magic phase would be a lot harder to shut down AND you would have excellent magic defence. I'd also suggest arming the dragon mage with silver wand and ring of fury. If you use terrain to protect him properly and limit line of sight to what you want him to destroy, having another offensive spell to throw at that unit will be extremely effective.
Ok I tested this list today, with a few modifications. I agree that the dragon mage can't take armour, so I ditched his armour and magic weapon for the ring of fury. I dropped the champions from the dragon princes and spearmen, and I dropped the spearmen to 17 (18 with character) and the Phoenix Guard to 18. With the spare points I added a unit of 5 reavers.
I played against O&G, and my magic was surprisingly very good offensively. 3 spells going off with 3-4 dice each plus the bound item was great. Magic defence was non-existant though. I faced an orc mage and a gobbo mage plus a bound item, which assisted in killing the dragon princes and my general. Doom diver killed 3 or 4 of the dragon princes though, and they never saw combat unfortunately.
The dragon mage proved very soft, he didn't go one round with an orc character in BTB as expected. He had charged some gobbos, then overran into a flank and the hero was at the corner... The BSB also died pretty easily. I used the eagle to launch fanatics in turn 1, which led to quite a few orc deaths and very few for my side. And the game ended up a draw after a brutal affair. I had the two bolt throwers and just over half the unit of Phoenix Guard left, he had less than half a unit of orcs, orc mage, less than half a unit of gobbos and the doom diver left. I got lucky though, my reavers (3 left) managed to charge the rear of an orc unit and beat them, then make them flee in turn 5! Unfortunately, they stuffed up the pursuit roll which allowed the orcs to rally in the next turn, making it a draw rather than minor victory.
So yes, I need more magic defence and possibly more numbers. Every casualty hurt.