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I'm thinking about expanding my army to 2250; I think I made hundreds of lists, here are my two favorite so far :
FIRST LIST :
Prince (Lore ; beast)
Helm of fortune
Radiant gem of hoeth
Dragon Mage of Caledor
Ring of fury
Jewel of the Dusk
5 Shadow Warriors (Assisted by Prince)
5 Dragon Princes
7 Sword Masters
7 Sword Masters
14 Phoenix Guards
15 White Lions
Bow of Seafearer
Ring of Fury
5 Shadow warriors
5 Dragon Princes
14 White Lions
Banner of Sorcery
14 White Lions
14 Phoenix Guards
I'm not super experienced I had a couple of games in the past with the ogres and recently few (succesful) games with my 1250 HE army list. Having a Lord could be very cool I find them very versatile in the HE army.
Any comments are welcome!
A few things you need to fix:
1) Your prince in list #1 is not allowed to have two pieces of magic armor. Since the plan is to have him running with the Shadow Warriors, he'll need the Shadow Armor so he can scout. You've also neglected to give him a shield, and also a CC weapon in case your Bear's Anger gets dispelled (which will happen A LOT). I'd highly recommend a great weapon, but that's just my preference. The longbow is a nice extra if you have points to spare, but the CC weapon is a lot more important.
2) Also in list #1, you need to switch that 15th White Lion into a 15th Phoenix Guard. The Guard need static CR to win combats so they should be lining up 5x3 when possible, and the White Lions need to line up 7 wide to maximize frontage, since they are going to win with kills, not static CR.
3) I don't have my book right in front of me at the moment, but I don't recall Archmages being able to select any weapons beyond their hand weapon. If that's the case, you cannot give your Archmage in list #2 a magic weapon which isn't a hand weapon, and the Bow of the Seafarer doesn't qualifiy as a hand weapon. This is the same rule that precludes you from buying your Archmage magic armor; under 7th edition rules, you can be a wizard, wear armor, and still cast spells, but GW has fixed it by not giving most wizards an option to wear any.
4) Also in list #2, you neglected to give your BSB heavy armor/dragon armor.
5) Also in list #2, if you are going to buy Banner of Sorcery, you should give it to your Phoenix Guard, rather than a White Lion unit. The Phoenix Guard are far less likely to die, or end up getting broken in CC and run down, particularly since I would think that's where your BSB is going with that Battle Banner.
6) Also in list #2, single chariots do not work particularly well; they just attract cannon/bolt-thrower fire. Chariots should always be fielded in pairs, and when possible set on opposite sides of the board. Might be worth considering dropping said chariot and increasing the size of your elite infantry blocks.
Overall, the lists look decent, aside from the points I've made above. Make sure you do a careful point check after any adjustments you make. Good luck!
Archmages and Mages as well as other wizard classes are allowed to use Magic Weapons. That's why i know a lot of HE players who give their Dragon Mage either the Sword of Might of Biting Blade for a little more punch. I think that it's just not often done as usually if your Mage is in CC you made a mistake somewhere.
I think the only magic user I've regularly given a magic weapon was my Spell singer who I would every now and again give a magic bow.
Apart from that I like your lists but would definitely make the changes that ga1661 has suggested.
To Esgalisil: It's not that those mages can't have a magic weapon... it's that they can't buy a mundane bow as regular equipment. I think that's the particular prohibition that's in place here. He can take all the magic weapons he wants... as long as they are hand weapons. All of the common magic weapons qualify, as do some of the HE magic weapons. But for instance, he couldn't take a magic flail or magic great weapon, because he can't buy the mundane ones. By that logic, he shouldn't be allowed to take a magic bow either. WE casters are different in that IIRC they all have a mundane bow and hand weapon already. Thus it would be legal for them to have a magic bow. Someone please correct me if the WE casters don't come with a bow, my friend currently is borrowing all 13 of my army books (including HE & WE), so I can't check.
Just a completely off-topic remark on those Dragon Mages... I can't understand why you'd bother to give a magic hand weapon if you're going to be casting Flaming Sword anyway... waste of points since you lose the benefit of your magic hand weapon (whatever it is) when you cast the spell.
The archmage can take the bow (or any magical weapon for that matter) he just won't shoot all that well compared to a noble and personally, I think the reaver bow is better. The best thing about our bolt throwers is that you can take 6 shots with them. The single bolt is rarely necessary or as good as the multiple shots and at least with my rolling very unpredictable. Whereas the multiple shots are almost always going to hit. The reaver bow does great in the hands of a noble (hitting on 2's usually) and can take down things like giants/treekin/ogres without a problem usually. I missed 3 single bolt shots in 1 turn last game. The next turn I missed 2/3 more.
I understand what you're saying... but if you're playing against an opponent who actually has enough dispel dice to waste them stopping your Flaming Sword, your Dragon should probably be doing other things besides getting into a combat where you might need the rider to actually do something. Now I'll admit I've only played about 25 games using a Dragon Mage, but it seems to me that causing terror tests and using the breath weapon are far more constructive uses of said Dragon, unless your opponent is silly enough to expose a flank charge for you, at which point you should be killing all the models that are eligible to hit the rider before they get to strike back, even without the Flaming Sword.
Are you sure about that thing with the bow? I've had multiple GW people tell me that he can't, although I have heard from one that he can. Really would be something good to know, although I don't see as it makes much of a difference, I wouldn't give a BS4 mage a bow anyway, he has better things to spend points on.
maybe that's just the way i've interpreted it. I thought if he has a weapon in his equipment, he is free to pick any magic weapon he can afford. Same with armor, etc. In the BRB, only magic users can get arcane items, and that was the only stipulation I knew of. When you say GW people do you mean Gav Thorpe, or just guys that work on the hotline or in the stores?
Also, people who aren't used to taking heroes on flyers, are bound to get into combats they wish they hadn't. I've whiffed way too many times with high WS str 5 attacks (which is why my horses seem to kill more than my dragon princes) so having something to kill a guy or 2 and limit the attacks back is useful if you don't get your spell off. Let's face it, none of the spells by themselves will destroy a unit (except in rare circumstances) but a dragon in the flank and something in the front with the flaming sword almost guarantees a winning combat resolution, which will destroy a unit (I've destroyed units with fast cav in the flank when I roll well)
By GW, I mean tournament staff. I'm obviously not privileged enough to speak with GT or AC or anyone else who matters (or I wouldn't be wasting time on a public chat board ). But anyways, the way I've been told, you can't buy a Star Lance for your Dragon Mage because you can't buy him a mundane lance. The rule, as I understand it, is that you can't buy a magic version of something you can't buy a mundane version of. That's the *new* reason why you can't buy magic armor for your wizards (in most cases); in 6th edition spell-casters couldn't cast and wear armor unless there was a *specific* exception, but that rule is gone now in 7th. Now the only rule barring them from wearing armor is that they can't buy it... and in order to maintain some of the balance of that 6th edition rule, they *don't allow most* casters buy it, Chaos being the most-obvious exception to that rule.
By that same logic, and the ruling regarding the Star Lance and Dragon Mages, it seems clear that if you can't buy a bow, you can't buy a magic bow either. So, since IIRC Archmages and Mages can't buy bows, they can't buy magic bows. Again, if anyone has heard anything expressly contradicting this from anyone who matters, please speak up!
With regard to the other comment... I see your point, I just wouldn't ever get engaged in combat to an opponent's front on purpose if they have static CR unless I already know Flaming Sword will get cast (opponent has no mages left and only has base dispel dice to work with), particularly for the reasons you describe. "Rubber lance syndrome," or in this case "rubber dragon claws," is really really annoying and happens a lot more than we'd like.
I could go along with that reasoning. Like you said, I wouldn't put a bow on a mage anyway. As always, it probably depends on your opponents. There are a couple of guys I play that even with the list above, I might not get but 1 spell off a turn. they've just got super magic armies. Other opponents, you could really work over with 3 casters. I know 10pts would get you another spearman, but I still subscribe to being overly cautious with a 450pt model. Especially if you're not used to using him. Obviously, going up against undead, in order for a Dragonmage to be useful, he's going to have to either have really good spells, or get into combat at sometime. I have a feeling that after March 8th, we're going to see a lot more undead armies on the field of battle.
Nod to the caution... I heard rumors that originally the Dragon Mages had light armor and the option for a shield, but practically every list in play testing ended up having a Dragon Mage with Armor of Caledor and Guardian Phoenix, an Archmage with Book of Hoeth, and a Lv 2 Mage with a pair of Powerstones or Dispel Scrolls, accompanied by a whole pile of cavalry and 2-4 Great Eagles. When you don't have to worry about your Dragon Mage dying in CC (or to randomized shooting), you can be a lot more reckless and crazy with them, which generally leads to your opponent panic-ing to kill the stupid Dragon. And in the meantime, your Eagles successfully march block or kill war machines as needed, while your cavalry goes unmolested, and you end up not even needing a CC character besides your Dragon Mage. Anyways, this is probably way off-topic, but I thought it might prove a useful thought exercise. My point was that when they figured how good it was to be able to buy Armor of Caledor for your Dragon Mage, they immediately had to scrap that idea. They understood how important it is to be able to protect that huge points sink, and I wanted to acknowledge I understood your point, in light of said argument.
I agree with you though, I expect we will be seeing a LOT of Undead from here on out... VC looks absolutely sick, and I think TK are going to get a major improvement when they get redone. Right now VC looks good, but after the update, it's downright scary, and TK is pretty mediocre at the moment, but they are going to be at least as good as Lizardmen, maybe better, after they get their new book. I think we may actually see the end of the Empire/Chaos era; it seems like forever now that those two armies (in all their variants) have been the only ones worth playing in serious tournaments if you want a realistic chance to win, which is a rather sad commentary on the game IMHO. But I guess we'll have to wait and see on that...