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  1. #1
    Master of the Crab Women swntzu's Avatar
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    2250 Tournament list, low body count

    I'll be honest. I am a very lazy painter. I want to be able to take part in tournaments as quickly as possible and for me this means a low body count.

    Here is the list:

    -----

    Lords

    Prince @ 606 Pts
    Lance
    Armour of Caledor
    Vambraces of Defence
    Star Dragon

    Heroes

    Mage @ 140 Pts
    Staff of Sorcery

    Mage @ 140 Pts
    Annulian Crystal

    Core

    10 Archers @ 115 Pts
    Musician

    19 Spearmen@ 196 Pts
    Full Command

    Special

    20 Phoenix Guard @ 345 Pts
    Standard; Musician
    Keeper of the Flame
    Amulet of Light

    Lion Chariot

    6 Dragon Princes @ 270 Pts
    Standard; Musician
    Banner of Ellyrion
    Drakemaster
    Skeinsliver

    6 Shadow Warriors

    Rare

    Repeater Bolt Thrower

    Repeater Bolt Thrower


    Casting Pool: 4

    Dispel Pool: 5

    Models in Army: 72

    Total Army Cost: 2248

    -----

    I am not a fan of eagles and this is why there are none in the list. The phoenix guard unit goes against the theme of attack in the army but I would like a strong centre to attack from. I was thinking of putting the lion standard on the spearmen as well and I am also unsure of the configuration of the dragon.

    Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks!

    Last edited by gingerninja; March 7th, 2008 at 17:16.
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  3. #2
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    Can certainly understand on the painting... I'll try to be helpful here, but if you're model-limited, that's going to make it more difficult. I personally love Eagles, but not in this type of list because you can't "waste points" on them as you absolutely must take 2 RBTs, so I can thankfully skip that issue. I'll embed comments on the list itself in red type face, but first a little bit of exposition...

    I really dislike the mixed list if you don't go MSU. I tried a list similar to this when I first got the new book, and after a week, I had to trash it. Either my Dragon wasn't doing anything but dodging war machines and hiding the first two turns while I waited for the infantry blocks to catch up, or the Dragon Princes were running up ahead with the Dragon and I ended up essentially fighting with two 1000 point armies instead of a coordinated 2k army. Believe me, it's very very difficult to win consistently like that.

    All that being said, given the style I think you're going for, the list is pretty decent. But here goes...

    Quote Originally Posted by swntzu View Post
    Lords

    Prince @ 606 Pts
    Lance
    Armour of Caledor
    Vambraces of Defence
    Star Dragon

    Heroes

    Mage @ 140 Pts
    Staff of Sorcery

    Mage @ 140 Pts
    Annulian Crystal

    All three of your characters are fine, although I'd be wary of playing both Annulian and Staff in a tournament environment because then you can't take even 1 scroll. I'm just not sure that 5 dice with +2 per dispel attempt is enough, particularly if you see a field heavy with the new VC army or LM/Tzeentch-Flying-Circus/TK, all of whom are very high on PD. But if you think you can get away with no scrolls, that's the right setup for your mages.

    Core

    10 Archers @ 115 Pts
    Musician

    Not quite sure why the Musician in the Archer unit... if they are getting charged by anything you'd actually want to run from instead of trying to stand and shoot, then ASF, in all likelihood they are going to be charged again even if you rally.

    18 Spearmen@ 196 Pts
    Full Command

    I prefer the 19th Spearmen to the unit champion even if you are mage-guarding; at that point, I'm just refusing and sending the mage to the back anyway... no reason to accept and have your champion get overkilled. However, I'm willing to bet you may not actually have a 19th prepped, so I can understand if that's why.

    Special

    20 Phoenix Guard @ 345 Pts
    Standard; Musician
    Keeper of the Flame
    Amulet of Light

    I'd really want to find the points for War Banner for the PG if you could, but your list is pretty tight already and it's not essential.


    Lion Chariot @ 140 Pts

    I absolutely hate running single chariots, especially in a list like this, because they can't even keep up with your marching infantry blocks. It's very difficult to keep them in good flanking position without severely cutting down on your infantry movement rate, not to mention that it will the first thing to get a cannon-ball after your Lord gets his dragon knocked out from under him. TBH, I would cut this, you have other areas where you need points help.

    6 Dragon Princes @ 270 Pts
    Standard; Musician
    Banner of Ellyrion
    Drakemaster
    Skeinsliver

    That Dragon Prince unit is soooo expensive; you're putting out almost 50 points for +1A and +1 to your roll to go first, that's a lot for possibly very little gain. Two naked 5-man units would barely cost more, and even just giving each a musician and nothing else would be absolutely fine. For 50 more points than you're currently spending, you get 4 more Dragon Princes, and now you have two units, each of which is a very good hammer, without significant drop off from your current unit. Again I realize you are trying to minimize the number of models you need to prep, but I think this will help you a lot in the long term. I don't think I have any lists at 2k or above anymore that don't run either Teclis, 4 RBTs, or at least 2 units of Dragon Princes. It seems like now you need to have at least one of those three options in every competitive list or you are shorting yourself.


    6 Shadow Warriors

    Getting to 9 means you no longer panic check on 2 casualties. Other than that possible upgrade, these are fine, that's not a terribly important add-on, and wasteful to take either 7 or 8 unless you just need a points dump.

    Rare

    Repeater Bolt Thrower

    Repeater Bolt Thrower

    I'd look to get a third if you had points, but again points-tight and probably model-tight, so not sure I can help there.

    Casting Pool: 4

    Dispel Pool: 4

    You have 5 DD with the one you steal from your opponent via Annulian.

    Models in Army: 72

    Total Army Cost: 2248
    Hope some of this was helpful...

  4. #3
    Master of the Crab Women swntzu's Avatar
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    There was meant to be a 19th spearman in the unit and the musician in the archers was there simply to fill up on points.

    None of this stuff is painted and half of it hasn't even been bought yet. It's just a plan to work towards and so is quite flexible.
    Last edited by swntzu; March 7th, 2008 at 14:32.
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  5. #4
    Now 17% more helpful gingerninja's Avatar
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    I would reccomend the following changes:

    1) Drop the Dragon Prince unit down to 5 strong with the following configuration:

    5 Dragon Princes: 205pts
    Musician and Champion
    Skeinsliver

    2) Drop the Lion Chariot

    3) Get another unit of 5 Dragon Princes with musician and champion.

    4) Use the remaining points to get the warbanner on your Pheonix Guard.

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  6. #5
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    I see that GN more or less agrees with my assessment, although I can't say I'm terribly surprised. We seem to come to similar conclusions a lot. The Champion + Skeinsliver upgrade isn't bad... but I don't know if it's completely necessary. Then again, I don't think you really have much better to spend the points on, and going first would be big for this list.

    I do have a question though... isn't the second unit of Princes better off with a Standard for the definite +1 CR rather than the extra attack that might give you +1? If you aren't giving the 2nd Champion a magic item to carry, this seems like a no-brainer to me, since you have the Musician to allow you to flee and rally if they somehow get charged by something you can't beat (which shouldn't happen often).

  7. #6
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    I'll first say - this is not my kind of list, but if it fits/works in your area then I have a couple suggestions for things that haven't been covered.

    drop the armor of caledor, get dragon armor and the enchanted shield. Most shooting, won't allow an armor save anyway, the kind that does has a -2 at best. You now have a 3+ 2 times and your 4+ward. You also have saved a few points and can buy the sword of might. This isn't quite as strong on the charge, but you're better against spirit hosts, ethereals, forest spirits and protracted combats. Suprisingly, I think you will find, big units will hold more often than you think in combat. Especially since you don't have a lot of units to back up the dragon (DP,PG, and spears is all)

    Get either some power stones or scrolls instead of the staff of sorcery. Drain magic and scrolls are going to save your bacon more than a +2 to dispel.

    I don't like the chariot due to it's poor toughness, but it can keep up with the other units. YOur other units march 10, it moves 8. When they charge, they only move 10, the chariot can move 16. So after 2 moves, it will still be in charge range for the most of the time.

  8. #7
    Master of the Crab Women swntzu's Avatar
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    Right. I made the following changes:
    • Dragon Princes have been cut down to 5 strong and with no banner.
    • A second Dragon Prince unit with standard and musicain has been added in place of the lion chariot.
    • The dragon has been changed as per bucker00's advice.
    • Both mages now have a dispel scroll and power stone each.
    • A single spearman has been added to make the list up to a nice 2250.
    Thanks for the advice. I'll edit the above list later an get buying the models.
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    A really interesting list, I agree with all that has been said before by buckeroO, GN and ga1. I only wanted to re-emphasis the point made by ga1 earlier. Having used a list like this several times when the new army book first came out there really is a great danger of the army working as two separate units due to the disparity in maneuverability of the different elements. I never managed overcome this and eventually changed the list radically and went virtually all cavalry. In this type of list you have 3-400pts tied up doing nothing to support your attack, which involves a lot of points but very few models, this gives your opponent the opportunity to defeat your army piecemeal, destroying you attacking elements first and then taking out you slower units. I do however understand the painting problem however, its taken me about 9-10 years to build my HE army and I am a very slow painter, about 2 infantry models a week or one cavalry model on a good week. Good luck!

  10. #9
    Master of the Crab Women swntzu's Avatar
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    Once again thanks for the input. I'll get working on this list and see how it does in a few test games.
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