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I got asked this afternoon to help a local HE player build a shooting-based list for a local tourney here. Most armies at the local store range between casual and semi-competitive, probably because the store does use comp-scoring. Anyways, I was wondering what you all think about the following:
6x Ellyrian Reavers with Musician, Spears & Bows
6x Ellyrian Reavers with Musician, Spears & Bows
9x Shadow Warriors
9x Shadow Warriors
Prince on Great Eagle with Lance, Armor of Caledor, Bow of the Seafarer
Noble on Great Eagle with Lance, Dragon Armor, Enchanted Shield, Reaver Bow
Level 2 Mage with Seerstaff and Power Stone
Level 2 Mage with Silver Wand and 2 Power Stones
2250 points total
6 PD + 3 stones
70 normal shots + 4 RBTs + BotS = BT shot + Reaver Bow = 3 S5 shots per turn
The idea is mainly to run around, shoot things, and stay out of close combat. Use the Reavers and Eagle-mounted characters to hit exposed flanks if possible, Mages probably both take High Magic unless there's something especially good against the specific opponent. Curse of Arrow Attraction and Drain Magic are good, I hear.
Obviously it's not the best thing anyone's ever run, but the poor guy doesn't have any Dragon Princes, and because the store only allows painted models, he can't run his Swordmasters because they aren't done yet. So understand that he really doesn't have the best material to work with... he also has Spears, WL, and PG done, in addition to the above (he a few more Reavers and Shadows too), but he doesn't own any Seaguard.
Any thoughts on tweaking this? Obviously there's not a ton you can do without the right models, but I ought to at least provide the best list I can.
For the second hero, I'd take him off the Eagle, and put him on a barded horse, make him your BSB, and give him a nice standard. Then he can help your archery line, and take on the enemy nasties that are bound to make it through the hail of arrows.
Ensure that the Repeaters have good fire arcs, fire at any heavy cavalry, and concentrate your archers against the enemy big blocks. Use the Shadow warriors to hunt mages as you have low magical defence (shoot them down if you can, then assault war mahcines or other skirmishers). Use your Prince to pick good flank shots against enemy heavy-hitters, such as heavy cavalry, use in combination with your bolt throwers, you are using more than 700 points of shooting, but should be able to wipe out a squadron or two of cavalry each turn. The Revaers should be used to bait chargers, or else flank and either threaten the enemy's war machines or archey units (again, flank marches are great, especially if there is ample cover such as hills.
ROFL... 700 points of shooting? Try 1850+ points of shooting.... everything here has bows except the mages and the Eagle mounts, and that's only because they can't.
I wasn't really looking for tactics advice here... this is definitely not a list I would play, I'm just trying to tweak this enough that the guy I'm giving to won't get blown out all 4 matches. He's relatively new to HE, but he played Empire before this, and he's pretty decent strategy-wise. If he had the right models, I wouldn't even be bothering with this, but he wants to play tomorrow, so I thought I'd help him clean this up a bit.
I'm not really sure you'd want a BSB though... if any of these units get charged by anything meaningful, they are going to be obliterated anyway. The Eagle riders are more about having escapable characters that can run around the board ambushing things. The guy who will be running this liked using Pegasus Captains as an Empire player, I imagine these will have a similar function.
Then yes, I thnk this list is survivable. Just make sure your fiend plnks down plenty of terrain dotted around on the board, as this will force bottlenecks so your friend can deal with units piecemeal at close range.
Agreed, the BSB isn't great when combat comes around, non of teh units are lasting for long. However, it's great for providing LD test rerolls....when teh general is gallavating around teh field
Actually if you check in the BRB, you can take multiple Stones. The person I'm trying to fix this for actually has mine at the moment, so I don't know the page number, but it's in the same section that says you can take multiple Scrolls. The reason for the Stones was to force through Drain Magics.
But anyway, that's neither here nor there... I have to agree that he's probably better off with defensive mages. Actually the right combination might be Annulian on one, Staff of Sorcery on the other... that gives 5 DD with +2 to dispel. That or dump one of those for a pair of Scrolls. I think 4 is kinda ineffective when you only have 4 DD. Your DD are not going to do anything, and you'll burn through the scrolls really quickly.
As far as the rest of the list goes, I checked with him earlier tonight. What he has to work with is 30 Spears, 10 PG with FC, 10 WL with FC, and 12 more Shadow Warriors. Apparently he won an eBay auction of 30 SW + 40 Archers + 30 Spears for like $45 hence the large number of SW. On the down-side, none of his really good stuff is painted yet... no SM and no DP = game over.
I agree that in principle our Archers suck... but he doesn't really have enough for static infantry blocks except Spears, and there he can go 2 of 15, or maybe 1 of 28.
If you drop a unit of Archers, and change the Mages to the above, you end up with 200 points to work with... adding all 12 SW, to go 3 units of 10, puts you almost back to even, still a little under. But then you haven't added anything static. A solid spear block would be around 175-225.
I dunno, I'll have to think about this some more... tourney starts early Sunday morning apparently.
Last edited by ga1661; June 7th, 2008 at 18:51.
Either way you look at it, archers aren't going to really help with a static line. Especially in units of 10. You make a good point about the units of spears not really helping, but honestly, if you wanted to add the spears, you could probably drop ANOTHER unit of archers. Adding in 21 spears and 10 more SW might be a help.
The WL would usually be a good add, but with only a unit of spears and a handful of archers, there's no point trying to bring the enemy to combat along a fixed front.
If he does go SW heavy, he should be trying to AVOID combat. The spears are just there to catch anything that gets through and makes a run for your squishy archers.
I would suggest that your friend try something of a refused flank or split deployment. Stick the RBTs in a corner, with the spears and archers giving them cover, and stick the Ellyrions along the rest of the table. The SWs are big units, and there's alot of them, so he'll have to stick them in whatever cover he can find. From there it's just a matter of how long the SW can hold out, or how long they can evade combats, and how much the Ellyrions can slow down the enemy or how well they can break him on flank charges.
One or two hard units might get through, but hopefully the spears can tarpit 1 of them, and the archers slow down another one until the Reavers can re-engage.
If he plays the army more like someone would play WoodElves, it might have some success.