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Hi everyone, just completed new 3k list for use at a gaming club. Here goes:
Prince on a barded elven steed, shield, dragon armour, lance, Vambraces of Defence, Radiant Gem of Hoeth 192pts
Level 4 Archmage on a barded elven steed, guardian phoenix, 2 scrolls, power stone, silver wand 379pts
Noble with BSB, dragon armour, shield, longbow, armour of protection 173
Level 2 Mage with scroll and seerstaff of saphery 185
16 Spearmen with Full Command and Lion standard/banner of arcane protection 194pts
16 Archers with a full command 201pts
16 Seaguard with shields and full command 233pts
8 Silver Helms with Full command 208pts
20 swordmasters with banner of sorcery and full command 380pts
18 white lions with full command 300pts
15 phoenix guard with full command 255pts
Last edited by gingerninja; September 7th, 2008 at 18:19. Reason: Points
Hmm. This is a good starting point for your army, but I would suggest a few changes:
1) Drop the command on your archers. In fact I would only have these in units of 10. They are a good shooting unit, but I would think that they shouldn't be seeing combat unless you are unlucky.
2) Spearmen I think are better in units of 18-24. That allows you to maximise your attacks and your ranks.
3) I also find the seaguard work better in units of 12, allowing you to have a shooting unit that can reform before combat.
4) I would put the banner of sorcery in the phoenix guard. They are more resiliant to shooting and attack.
The drop in units sizes should allow you to get great eagles, which are great to get rid of warmachine crews and lone mages.
This list could do with a bit of reimagining, as I see you are using the box numbers of units, and you need to play it to check what works and what doesn't.
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It looks like you are new, so I will expand on gingerninja's points a bit and explain them.
To get a rank bonus you need 5 models across in 7th edition, not 4 as it was last edition. That means that units of 16 used to be great, but now it is quite rubbish. You could drop them down to units of 15 and go 5x3, but really at 3000 points you need maximum ranks at least, so you would want 20+ models in spearman units. If they have a character with them, feel free to take 19 to save points.
Archers are no good in units of 16, and should never have command. They are not a combat unit and shouldn't be in ranks because only the front rank can shoot anyway, command is just wasting points and potentially giving away a free banner. What you can do with extra archer models (assuming you haven't already glued them) is mix them with some spearmen parts and make seaguard, this leaves you with more useful model than you would otherwise have. I got the big army box so I had 32 spearmen and 24 archers, I assembled 20 straight spearmen for a unit, leaving me with 12 spear models. Then I combined those 12 spears with 9 archers and got a unit of 21 seaguard. So from 32 spears I got 41 combat infantry.
If you have put them together already, just means you have extra models. You could probably use normal archers in a seaguard unit if you are just playing friendly games.
20 swordmasters is a bit big. SM are a very killy unit, but die easily to shooting. In 3k almost every opponent will have a bit of shooting and devastate them in 1-2 turns because no one wants SM with ranks in combat with them. You also should try to maximize the number attacking. If you want a big unit, take 12 (6x2), 14 (7x2) or 15 (5x3). I find they work best in units of 7 with champ. Then they appear to be a small target to opponents so will attract less fire, you have several units of them so opponents need to split their fire, and they still kill like crazy in combat. They work best as a support unit there.
Silver helms aren't very good in this edition either. for just 7 points a model more and exactly the same special slot, you get dragon princes which have superior stats by far, an extra lance attack each (making them among the best heavy cavalry in the game) and they can take a magic banner and magic items on the unit champ. I know its a pain if you have helm models, consider converting them to dragon princes rather than buying the metal models. If you really want to kee the helms, increase them to 10 models (5x2) or decrease them to 6 models. They work better in a supporting role, so units of 6 would work well.
Your noble should have a great weapon. Really, we strike first so there is no reason not to get s6 striking first. You have magic and mundane armour on him too, that is illegal. You can't take 2 armours. I would get rid of both armours, get rid of the shield, and give him armour of Caledor. It is brilliant protection for a foot noble.
In such an infantry heavy list I think chariots would help you a lot too. They can be fragile and a bit hit or miss, but they are great support for infantry units since they only need to brush combat to get full effectiveness.
I know I have butchered your list quite a bit, but you do need to at least be having sensible unit sizes and legal equipment. HE are not an easy army to play. You should try a few 2k games to find out what works and what doesn't before expanding to 3k, you really can face a lot in a 3k army.
I agree whole-heartedly with Ginger and Strewart. They are both really good people to have commenting on your list. Here is what I have to add however:
1) Drop your archers: I know that everyone has been telling you to reduce them to 10 and drop the command, but in your army, you could afford to drop them entirely. Aside from the RBTs, elven shooting does nothing. A unit of 10 archers, hitting unmodified troops, will kill about 2 per turn. That's hardly enough to validate their cost on the field. I'd drop the whole unit, giving you enough points for 4 eagles if you wanted. Or, another RBT and 2 Eagles.
2) I would agree at making your Silver Helm unit larger. Making it smaller is also a waste as far as I'm concerned. For a unit of 6 Silver Helms, you'd be better off upgrading to more surviviable Dragon Princes, or downgrading to MUCH cheaper Ellyrian Reavers. A unit of 10 SilverHelms though, has been found to be as useful- if not more useful than- a unit of 6 DPs.
3) On your mages, remember- only 1 arcane type item allowed. With the exception of the scrolls, you may not take numerous arcane type items. Even some 'common' items are also marked as 'arcane' in their description.
4) On your BSB, it's true that you cannot have Magical and Mundane armor on at the same time. Therefore, your dragon armor must go. Now, what I would do for this guy, since he's on foot, is give him the Armor of Caledor and a Great Weapon. That's a 1+ save with +2 strength, and you're looking at quite a beastial model. Also, remember to clear a space for him to hide in. BSBs work best in a unit, so find out what unit you want to put him in, and then subract 1 model from the total, to clear a space for him. In addition, that unit really doesn't need a standard bearer anymore.
5) 20 Swordmasters really is monstrous. I'd go with either 2 units of 10, or 3 units of 6. Ditto that for the While Lions. Once again, they're pretty killy when they're needed, but I'd make two units of 10 out of them (they aren't quite killy enough for units of 6). The PGs can stay as a massive unit, because that's what they're good for. Those PGs should also be the ones packing the magic banner.
6) I'd buy some extra SMs and WLs. They are each good for totally different things. SMs work great against lighter opponents where a horde of attacks can really turn the tide. If you are facing dwarves though, or something with great armor and/or good shooting, I'd drop them for the WLs. They're the same exact points cost, so swapping them takes no effort at all.
7) Please upsize/downsize your core choices. Your spearmen are possibly your best troops choice in this application. LSG are great to have in the inventory, but they are really only useful in low-point games where their mixed armament comes in handy. In a big game, you are right back where you started. For the points you are paying to add bows to your spearmen, you are getting a whole 5-7 shots, that will likely only kill 1-2 models a turn. Not really that useful. Now- if you want to get a decent bit of use from them, try to get them up to 21, field them 7 across and 3 deep, and do your best to get them onto a hill. Nobody will want to charge that unit, because a simple stand-and-shoot reaction yeilds 35 S3 hits before the enemy even gets to strike back. Otherwise, I'd run 18-20 regular Spear Elves and fill out my core with that.
I always avoid chariots. In a defensive role they will be shot before they are used. In an offensive role, they will be left behind by the faster moving cavalry, and even by the marching infantry (remember, chariots can't march). The kitty-kart is a deathwish, and the Tirannoc chariot only marginally better. That's just my 2 cents. I know some players who find chariots quite useful.
9) You were mentioning taking Crossbows and another mage in this list, or taking PGs. Perhaps, having dropped the archers, you could squeeze PGs and a Mage in. You don't need alot of shooting, your RBTs are good enough for that. The Crossbows have a mediocre range but they're move-or-fire, meaning that you will likely outdistance them in an assault. PGs on the other hand are quite resilient to shooting and scary as hell for the enemy in hand to hand. That mage could easily be a lvl2 Scroll-Caddy, taking all the scrolls off the other mages and freeing up points for them, or he could grab the Jewel of the Dusk and really add to the PD pool. If you add this mage, i'd drop the Radiant Gem off your General. It makes him too pricey, and he could benefit from the 45pts. Maybe get him the Ring of Fury (more offensive magic power) or a weapon. Remember, you can't cast in armor anyways, even with the Gem.
We've all sort of butchered your list and/or flooded you with ideas. It's not that there is anything wrong with your list as it stands, but you're really not coming close to it's full potential. High Elves can be an incredibly strong army. We know that your list is meant to be friendly, but we're giving you every possible suggestion to squeeze every inch of power from it without making it cheesey. How much added 'oomf' you need is entirely up to you. Good luck though!