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so i have a game coming this weekend against 2 armys of vamp counts,i am teamed up with dwarfs, i know nothing of the vamp armys we will be fighting, this is the list i came up with, let me know what you guys think
mage-jewel of dusk-dispel scroll-170
mage-ring of corin-dispel scroll-175
18 phoenix guard-fc-banner of sorcery-350
6 sword masters-XX
6 sword masters-XX
6 sword masters-XX
6 sword masters-XX
1 bolt thrower-XXX
15-19 power dice
7-9 dispel dice
4 dispel scrolls
plan is all 4 mages with the phoenix guards for protection, they hang back and cast spells, teclis and mage with seerstaff take high magic and other 2 mages take lore of fire, seer staff chooses flames of phoenix and fury of khaine, every thing else obviously trys to get in combat and flank with out dieing first,i have found severel 6 man sword master units work really well, should be enough scrolls and dispel dice to protect, advice and different ideas welcome, im still rather new to warhammer
In future please do not post points costs of characters, units or items without upgrades please - GN out
Last edited by gingerninja; November 5th, 2008 at 11:41. Reason: Points
3 Mages probably overkill. Yes i realise your against 2 vamp armies meaing a possible 8 spell casters but i remind you that you have TECLIS and DWARFS, Not to mention DRAIN MAGIC.
I recomned dropping a mage and taking a BSB. Hell, why not give him that gem making him lvl 1 if you still want dispel dice, but anyway, that reroll on break tests is always worth it, and thats before any magic affects the banner may have.
I think (back on characters), Teclis and 1 mage is enough. You should be throwing 4-5 dice at a spell to ensure irresitable force with teclis and aim for two spells per turn with him. With the other mage either make him a scroll caddy or use him for a specific role either defending a unit with some high magic or just to get off drain magic, or law of light damage spells (as they are S6 against undead).
2 bolt throwers or none in my opinion against VC. With two you can severely damage units meaning spell dice has to go to raiseing back dead models, were as one will not draw away enough enemy power dice or do nearly enough dammage. Having just played against high elves with my VCs in the U.K. GT i noticed that one bolt thrower was easily delt with, blocking line of sight to a main unit with 10 ghouls or zombies, loosing 4-5, then using one dice to raise them back to full strength, and repeat until close enough to charge. 2 Bolt thrower though meant i was using 2-4 dice to heal back unitsand thats when they were not killed out right.
I would try and get bigger units of Spearmen personally. You can attack in 3 ranks so buy enought for either 3 ranks of 5-6. probably getting the points from dropping one Swordmaster unit.
Hope this helps a little,
Last edited by saltrock36; November 5th, 2008 at 10:39.
I don't think 4 mages is necessary, as Teclis will be using all the pool dice and the others will just get dispelled.
Putting 4 mages in the pheonix guard unit is suicide. I wound charge that front line with zombies to be honest. Characters have to go in the front rank, and the ward save does not confer onto them. They will get killed.
I like the small units of SMs but I would go for 7, because that is how many can contact the front of a five wide unit. Beware of the banshee and black coach though, because that would go straight through those units.
The spearman blocks will not fight off and undead combat unit. 5 black knights will murder both blocks. They need to be bigger and probably have standards in, for the combat resolution, perhaps one block with the lion standard?
Arms are an instrument of evil, No measure for thoughtful men until there fail all other choice but sad acceptance of it.
Sun-Tse : The art of war
i thought about having a noble with the gem but it wouldnt be that great, the bsb however would be awesome i didnt know it made units within 12 inches able to re-roll failed breaks and adds another +1 to combat res,amazing, i could use the added protection and ability to anialate any one who gets in contact with it, just pop the mages out the turn before they get in combat
so i cant find a way i like to get 2 bolt throwers so my plan is drop the mage with the jewel and the 1 bolt thrower then add a noble with bsb+battle banner+great weapon+lightarmor and another unit of 5 sword masters,i dont want to take core units because special units are better, should be 2000 points after the change, how does that sound?
Last edited by dethunt; November 5th, 2008 at 11:40.
Last edited by dethunt; November 5th, 2008 at 11:59.
Even the CORE high elves are significantly better than any undead core. Spears are great - the fight in three ranks will skewer large numbers of relatively unarmoured undead, so you are unlikely to lose a combat if charged, and will be able to hold in place to allow your elites a flank charge opportunity.
What you also lack is a means to march block. No eagles, Reavers or Shadow Warriors means that the udnead will close in on you early. You also have no reliable way to take out Varghulfs, which will gun for teclis.
Taking a Noble with a ring of fury will be golden, because you may well get a few bursts of Fury of Khaine at Vampire units.
You should be able to counter large portions of teh Undead army using your army as the hammer to teh Dwarven anvil, but the fact that the Undead army has acces to quite a few chep flyers means that you may be leaving yourself a little open. I know I would take hellsteeds, dragons etc so I can fight on my own terms.
thanks for the advice ill def put a mage with sigil of asuryan, as for the bolt throwers i only have 2 so thats all i could do,what banner would be better in the pg unit;battle banner or the world dragon banner?
whats the deal with amulet of light? can Spirit Hosts or Cairn Wraiths only be hit by magic?
Last edited by dethunt; November 6th, 2008 at 05:51.
ok here is my new list idea, and yes i will try my best to eat Invocation of Nehek
teclis (phoenix guards)
mage-lvl2-sigil of asuryan (either hide behind or in spearmen)
mage-lvl2-dispel scroll x2 (either hide behind or in spearmen)
noble-battle banner-great weapon-heavy armour (phoenix guards)
18 phoenix guard-fc-banner of sorcery-amulet of light
pretty sure im gonna stick with what i got above but the rest im not sure what to do cause i want bolt throwers but having only two units of sword masters could die before doing any thing, when i have four at least 2 get in combat and do heavy amounts of damage, here are the options i came up with
6 sword masters x2
this leaves me 38 points to boost units or a banner
6 sword masters x4
this leaves me 58 points
i cant decide what would work better, more units or more shooting
To be honest, the ONLy way you are going to kill enough Undead to crumble units in one go is through massive combat res. Swordmasters give you this. However, it should be noted that there are many instances when shooting will be needed, e.g. against Blood Knights, which would otherwise butcher hapless High Elf combat units, except perhaps White Lions.
The battle-banner bearer is a little unprotected. He is cheap VP with only heavy armour and T3. I would put him in an armour of caledor or (given most Vampires counts units are quite low LD), armour of heroes.
If you go the route of 2 RBTs, I would use the 38 points to put armour of Caledor on the BSB and upgrade a single Swordmaster unit to Bladelord. Alternatively, do the same thing with the BSB, upgrade 2 champions to Blade lords, and add a single spear to one of the Spear-Elf units, else upgrade one of the spears to a champion.