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Archmage - 350
Lvl 4, Foliath, Saphery, Silver Wand
Combo renders him (essentially) immune to CC attacks, he can even accept challenges and laugh as the lord/hero swings madly, attempting to build overkill CR, and hits nothing but air. Keep him in the White Lions so he can't be individually targeted by spells or shooting. Knows 5 spells, generally give him High Magic.
Mage - 185
Lvl 2, Scroll, Seerstaff
Chooses spells, generally keep him in the archer unit and give him Heavens. I always give him Second Sign of Amul (D3 rerolls/turn), then the second spell is based on opponent's army (Thunderbolt for heavy armor, Celestial Shield for shooting, etc).
Noble - 143
Caledor Armor, Guardian Phoenix, GW
Head up the Spearmen anvil with some killing ability, with some items to not die.
BSB - 212
Banner of Battle
Barded Steed, Heavy Armor, Shield
BSB in spears also, Battle CR + ranked static CR is a nice combo
24 Spearmen - 251
Music, Standard, Lion Banner
Immune to Fear/Terror helps with anvil psych
18 Swordmasters - 338
Music, Standard, Sorc Standard
More Power Dice = smiles, buzzsaw flank closes CR with the spears
13 White Lions - 270
Full Command, Standard of Balance
Ran into issues running from outnumbering fear-causers, ITP fixes this, and getting rid of hatred/frenzy is a plus
Cuz they eat things, that's why
Idea is to balance ranged/magic and CC. Enough CC to make enemies hesitant to charge me head-on, enough magic/shooting to make them hesitant about hanging back. This means I can pick my fights. Eagle is a march blocker and fast support.
As for magic, D3 extra power dice means 10-12 power dice. D3 reroll spell first means usually about 2 rerolls per turn, nice to use on RBTs or hero combats. That leaves 8-10 dice, which lets me go pretty crazy with the High Magic list. Heavens + High Magic gives a nice balance of offense and defense. Dispelling has 5 dice and 1 scroll... with the HE +1 dispel and Drain Magic, that should be sufficient.
Curse + archers and RBTs makes for a nice addition to the good magic phase.
CC is the spear anvil with a ton of CR, combined with SM buzzsaws in the flank. White Lions can act as a secondary anvil with chariot support if needed, or go alone and hunt cores/scouts/shooters through the woods, freeing up the chariot for the spear combat. SMs painfully average Ld is countered by never leaving the side of the BSB unit.
Doesn't 'excel' at any one phase, but balances all three to try to fight all comers.
Feedback would be appreciated. Especially if something is illegal, I always seem to overlook details like that.
Last edited by BrockSamson; April 7th, 2009 at 10:06. Reason: Fixed issues pointed out in thread
Good call on the banners and the spell, I'll edit the list as such. Thanks for the feedback... I think it seems large because I have no cav units... I thought I could avoid them due to my healthy dose of magic and ranged; opponents will have to come to me.
Last edited by BrockSamson; April 7th, 2009 at 10:01.
i like your list and it should do good against most armies. Armies that go heavy on one phase or another will probably give you problems but that is the way it always is.
you may wish that you had some cavalry but I understand about your foot soldiers.
Please keep us informed about how you do.
Had two draws on its first weekend... but I'm pretty new to HE, so I chock this up to my inexperience with the list.
First game, LM. Stego with Machine of the Gods and a priest, 2 terrodons, razordons, some skirmishing skinks, a block of saurus with a BSB and lord on a carnosaur, some cold one knight guys (don't know their names, pretty standard heavy cav). I freed up some points and tried out shadow warriors... a terrodon unit smashed them on turn one. From that point, crappy ranged rolling allowed them to wreak havoc on my RBTs... they didn't do much besides wiff terrodons alot and lose crew. Magic and ranged didn't bring their A-game this battle, especially with the stupid stego shield spell from shooting.
My WLs charged the razordons (suicide for most units, but WLs were built for that) but they rolled horribly in the ensuing combat and didn't even kill one razordon with a 7 frontage. They broke (thanks Stubborn!) and were run down, but this wasn't until about turn 3 and this forced the razordons toward a corner, so the razordons didn't do much the rest of the game. Thankfully my Lord had dropped out of the WLs earlier.
I thought I was doing pretty poorly. Mid game I set up my spear anvil at an angle to take a charge from the saurus, then positioned the SMs for the flank. His charge (clever!) saw the saurus into my spears and the lord into my SMs.
Lord fight first, 8 SM attacks on the carnosaur (only 4 in contact) got 6 hits (average), 5 wounds (rolling 4s!) and no saves. Carnosaur drops, along with my opponent's jaw. I tell him that his carnosaur should try fighting more and sticking his face into an active lawn mower blade less. Lord maybe kills one SM, loses combat by alot, breaks. He's run down and my SMs end up in the flank of the saurus anyway. Spears and saurus first round, nothing special.
Next turn sees his knights into my spear flank, and then my chariot into the knight flank. On the turn my chariot charges, I win combat by 18. No joke. Battle banner + SM buzzsaw + chariot impact = ugggggly. Both break, even with rerolling LM Ld, double 1s is no fun. Knights get away, saurus do not.
Turn 6 sees my spears fighting the stego, I forget the dumb rule about the stego counting as a hero mount for the purpose of a challenge, so I get no spear attacks. I lose combat but stick around. My turn 6, chariot charges stego and we spend 10 minutes arguing about impact hits and chariot attacks into a "challenge". Errata had a complicated answer that for our purposes meant impact hits yes, attacks no. The flank charge, Battle Banner roll and impact hits made me win combat, stego is stubborn, but breaks anyway. I decimated his army but skinks and the surviving knights capture 3 table quarters, that was his saving grace.
Still win by 150, even with horrible mistakes, victory in my book.
Last edited by BrockSamson; April 8th, 2009 at 21:51.
Nice report, hope you can do another one for your other game as well.
It is always good to see how a list pans out.
You were unlucky not to have your swordmasters fighting in the first turn of the spearmen combat.
Second game, dwarves. 2 10 man gunlines, cannon, 2 bolt throwers, organ gun, 10 quarreler rangers in a forest, Longbeards with a hero, hammerers with lord on shieldbearers and bsb, warriors with runepriest with the steal power die item.
My lord stayed in the WLs the entire game, the lvl 2 was in the archers and took Celestial Shield and Second Sign of Amul.
This game was mine until turn 6.
I take first turn, advance straight forward, screening chariot with spears and SMs with WLs. Shield of Saphery and Celestial Shield up on both. Vaul's Unmaking on his hammerers, scrolled. My bolt throwers take out like 7 longbeards, great rolling on my part. His turn, gunline rolls HORRIBLY, but cannon drops the chariot. Turn 2, I advance again, now only 3 melee units. I angle the advance to keep my charge options open, but the gunlines are flank-blocking for his melee. RBTs/archers have a great round again shooting hammerers, and Vaul's Unmaking goes off on a 17... he throws 5 dispel dice... 1 1 2 3 3. Goes off anyway from 1 1, regardless, but crappy rolling nonetheless. Sees his 70pt magic greatsword get eaten.
His turn 2. Cannon takes out some RnF, but the rest of his shooting is again a failure. He is not happy at this point. He seems to roll well when shooting at a unit that is well-guarded against shooting (WLs with SoS, Spears or SMs with Celestial), but I just save. But when a unit is open to shooting, his rolling is horrid. Organ gun will roll 6 hits, needing 2s to wound, and will roll 3 1s, etc.
My turn 3, charge WLs into warriors with eagle flank, SMs and spears dual front charge hammerers. Runepriest sees my archmage in WLs and challenges. I accept on Lord and they will fight until the Rapture separates them (or a break check... god I love that Archmage item combo!). WLs lose first few rounds, but Stubborn keeps them around (eagle runs, rallies, but is pretty much done for the game), and they start to make a dent. After a few rounds of winning, they finally break the dwarves, run them down and pursue into a gunline.
Magic sees Flames of the Phoenix on a few units, and is otherwise doing great. Shooting is starting to take chunks out of his gunline, and I almost wound his cannon one turn with the RBTs... almost. His gunline starts moving up and shooting my ranged, and we for the most part trade equal blows at this point. A cannon shot gets my lvl 2, but only does 1 wound, he hids behind a hill for the remainder of the game (at this point he's just an Amul machine).
Meanwhile, a few rounds of the hammerer combat sees his lord taking chunks out of my SMs, a flank by his longbeards, and his hammerer unit... gone. Then, a turn sees 4 SM attacks (only ones in contact) do three wounds to his T6 lord. Lord rolls 1+ armor (modified to 3+ by Str 5)... 2 2 2. Dead. Spears turn to face longbeards, SMs charge a bolt thrower the next turn, kill the crew.
Turn 6 sees me a good 800 points up on him, but he has the last turn. He tries to grapeshot my 5 remaining SMs, rolls a 2 for the Str, decides to reroll... Misfire. Cannon's done for that turn and the game. Organ gun turns and shoots WLs... kills the 5 remaining WLs. Gets full credit for that unit. Lord remains alone, rolls a panic check... 11. Lord is panicing at the end of the game, there's points for my lord. Spears and heroes roll like crap in combat, longbeards win by three. Battle Banner rolls a one, lose by two. I need to make a Ld7 break check with rerolls and do not... spears running on turn six, complete with a combat hero and BSB. There's another 600ish points. All in all, I lose credit for about half my army on turn 6.
I still counted this as a win in my book, even though the game scored as a draw in his favor. I dominated until a few crappy Ld checks on turn 6, if my lord and spears stick around then it's a 700ish point victory. I felt very good about how I did the rest of the game, even though some of it was his rolling on ranged.
Last edited by BrockSamson; April 8th, 2009 at 21:57.
I'm sorry to rain on your parade, but from reading your report I can tell you right now that the lizardman player either didn't know how to play his army.
Personally, I don't like the Battle Banner for the exact reason you mentioned in your report. Why even fight if you don't have to wound anyone with your banner? All you have to do is roll a high number on a D6 and you ahead by 4(average) in combat even if neither of you swings.
You did roll poorly it sounds like because your magic probably should have done a bit better, but again, personally, I'd take my chances with the lvl4 and give him some items to help the magic phase. Who cares if no one can touch him if your unit runs because of fear and outnumber or whatever other reason. I'd prefer to take some 1-2 bound items and maybe a scroll. You run the risk of not getting a spell you want, but in return, you can really control the magic phase with both bound items.
You might also consider taking a halberd on your bsb, it makes him str 5 for cheap if you need a little extra punch (which elves always need, since they are so weak and squishy)
I like the Battle Banner because you don't win combat by 18 all the time. Against my dwarf opponent, the Battle Banner simply rolling average would have saved my butt. It's like calling in CR backup when you need it. Spears really don't kill anything.
WLs with Standard of Balance will pretty much never go anywhere. I'm not too concerned about that... they only ran in this one situation because of horrible die throwing in both combat and Ld. Statistically, they should've tied combat with one razordon dead, or made the Ld if they lost. The chances of that repeating are slim.
I like the defense item combo because I want to keep my mages in my units. If they step out at the first sign of combat, enemy casters/shooters paint a big bullseye on his chest, and he's T3 with no saves. What's he gonna take? GPho to get a 5+ ward? He could take a really expensive arcane item, but then he's just free points to anyone who wants to come and get him. I don't like 'taking chances' with 300+ point lords. Play style I guess.
But yeah magic was horrid in game one, but it stepped it up in game 2. I honestly think alot of game 1 was me, not the list. I like the halberd BSB idea.