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  1. #1
    Senior Member niraco's Avatar
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    2999 friendly list - advice needed

    Hello,

    As a novice Fantasy player please tell me what is your opinio about this list (is based on 2999 rules, but yes is exactly 3000 pts which is allowed in my gaming club for friendly lists - the half point of your cheapest model over the limit rule ).

    So here we go:

    2999 Pts - High Elves Army


    Prince General; Great Weapon; Vambraces of Defence; Armour of Caledor; Star Dragon

    Archers x 10

    Archers x 10

    White Lions x 25 Standard; Musician; Standard of Balance Guardian Gem of Courage

    Swordmasters x 23 Standard; Musician; Banner of Arcane Protection Bladelord Amulet of Light Biting Blade

    Noble Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield Battle Standard; Banner of the World Dragon Elf Steed: Barded

    Mage lev 2
    Dispel Scroll
    Dispel Scroll
    Silver Wand

    Great Eagles

    Great Eagles

    Repeater Bolt Thrower

    Repeater Bolt Thrower

    Dragon Princes x9 Standard; Musician; War Banner Drakemaster Sword of Battle


    Dragon Princes x5 Standard; Musician; Banner of Ellyrion Drakemaster Skeinsliver



    Total Army Cost: 3000

    The idea is magic defense (scrolls, fire imunnity, one unit immune to magic, one is magic resistant 2, and some nice drain magic if lucky casted), one stubborn large unit to anchor, 3 fast hard hitting units, 2 eagles to search for some war machines/march blocking, fanatic launching, some shooting and a scary swordmasters unit.

    What you think?

    Last edited by niraco; November 29th, 2009 at 09:49.
    Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Zagman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niraco View Post
    Hello,

    As a novice Fantasy player please tell me what is your opinio about this list (is based on 2999 rules, but yes is exactly 3000 pts which is allowed in my gaming club for friendly lists - the half point of your cheapest model over the limit rule ).

    So here we go:

    2999 Pts - High Elves Army


    Prince General; Great Weapon; Vambraces of Defence; Armour of Caledor; Star Dragon

    Archers x 10

    Archers x 10

    White Lions x 25 Standard; Musician; Standard of Balance Guardian Gem of Courage

    Swordmasters x 23 Standard; Musician; Banner of Arcane Protection Bladelord Amulet of Light Biting Blade

    Noble Lance; Dragon Armour; Shield Battle Standard; Banner of the World Dragon Elf Steed: Barded

    Mage
    Dispel Scroll
    Dispel Scroll
    Silver Wand

    Great Eagles

    Great Eagles

    Repeater Bolt Thrower

    Repeater Bolt Thrower

    Dragon Princes x9 Standard; Musician; War Banner Drakemaster Sword of Battle


    Dragon Princes x5 Standard; Musician; Banner of Ellyrion Drakemaster Skeinsliver



    Total Army Cost: 3000

    The idea is magic defense (scrolls, fire imunnity, one unit immune to magic, one is magic resistant 2, and some nice drain magic if lucky casted), one stubborn large unit to anchor, 3 fast hard hitting units, 2 eagles to search for some war machines/march blocking, fanatic launching, some shooting and a scary swordmasters unit.

    What you think?
    How about the Battle Banner instead of the Banner of the World Dragon, The extra combat res will make that big unit of Dragon Princes devastating. You have two scrolls and they should be in combat turn 2 or three so minimal casting at them.

    How about you drop the Silver wand on the Mage and make him a LVL2. That gives you a chance to throw three dice at dispel magic every turn shooting for irresistable force. I can't imagine the extra spell will go off anyway, saves you 10 pts this way as I assume he is a lvl 2 anyway.

    Maybe drop the sword of battle on the drakemaster of the large dragon prince unit for the Talismen of Loec, gives you a chance to really hurt something in a challenge you don't want your BSB facing.

    Maybe the skeinsliver on the Swordmasters and the Amulate of Light on either the Prince on Stardragon or the little unit of dragon princes.

    Two units of 7 with blademasters and musicians for the swordmasters, use the exta points to make a great eagle a RBT, and a couple more DPs for the baby unit. Banner of Arcane protection in one, with the Amulat of fire on the other Bladelord. With a single eagle and two very fast units of knights you should be able march block/engage much of their army. The 3rd bolt thrower allows you to choose a target and potentially take it out.

    That is just my 2 cents. Keeps your general antmagic theme except for the Battle Banner which makes the DPs a unit capable of breaking anything breakable. If you are allowed special characters I would go with Caradryan and Tyrion instead of the Stardragon, would give you a MR2 and MR3 unit making mostly everything magic resistant. That is if you are allowed special characters. With Caradryan in your white lions you would end up with a massive unit of LD 9, stubborn, fear causers, with MR3, Str 6 attacks, and a Hero capable of hurting most opponents, an all terrain unit, also great ranged attack armor save as well.

  4. #3
    Senior Member niraco's Avatar
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    the mage is level 2 i just forgot to write it...
    ToL on drakemaster seems interesting.

    Amulet of fire on a blademaster is not giving only that model a magic resistance 1? or because is a small unit it will be used if a wound must be placed on the bladelord?

    The battle banner is an idea...i`ll use it depending the enemy.

    Amulet of light on prince is more usefull due to dragon mobility??

    No characters except fluffy battles
    Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky

  5. #4
    Senior Member Zagman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by niraco View Post
    the mage is level 2 i just forgot to write it...
    ToL on drakemaster seems interesting.

    Amulet of fire on a blademaster is not giving only that model a magic resistance 1? or because is a small unit it will be used if a wound must be placed on the bladelord?

    The battle banner is an idea...i`ll use it depending the enemy.

    Amulet of light on prince is more usefull due to dragon mobility??

    No characters except fluffy battles
    Talismon of Loec will let your dragon master have a chance at dropping most hero level characters. A nasty surprise.

    Amulet of fire on a bladelord will convey MR1 to the unit, though only fire immunity to the bladelord.

    Battle banner is amazing against undead or daemons which can be killed by combat resolution.

    Amulet of light makes both the Prince's and the Dragon's attacks magical. Useful to take out ethereal units, negate forest spirit's save, etc. What is better than having a giant fire breathing flying lizard, a magical giant fire breathing flying lizard. And with your lack of an offensive magic phase, this will allow you to take out ethereal units, otherwise you don't have an attack in the army that can do it. Putting it on your dragon gives your nastiest, fastest, unit the ability to take them out with ease.

  6. #5
    Lord Admiral kithre's Avatar
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    Talismon of Loec will let your dragon master have a chance at dropping most hero level characters. A nasty surprise.
    If the Drakemaster is the model you are talking about - 1 wound? So you are giving your opponent a wound with the probability of causing maybe 2, and more likely just 1...
    I would reserve Loec for a Prince on a Star Dragon TBH if I wasn't taking the talisman - more attacks, more wounds, more likelhood he'll need it.

    Now to the list:
    1) Why magical weapons on yor champions? Biting blade is good, but a BladeLord is paying for the same save modifier he'd get if he was wielding his normal, free greatsword? And the Drakemaster can't use his lance...
    If you need amulet of light, fine, but don't give him a magical weapon as well..., and you ought to use magic and your Dragon Lord with the amulet of light as that unit is now packing S7 magical attacks

    2) 23 Swordmasters is a waste - I'd rather go two units, one of 10, one of 13/14, or even reduce the size to 14 and have two ranks. Swordmasters pay for those additional ranks through the nose and are more efificent at causing wounds. Each "rank" if deployed as a 5-man unit, will generate more combat res than a single 23 man regiment will....(unless facing 0+ save enemies with T6 or more)

    3) Same argument with the Lions - why have a huge unit like this? S6 GW don't work if the White Lion has a 4 comrades in front of him. Maybe a unit of 12? Or 2 units of 12?

    4) I would opt for Battle Banner or Warbanner somewhere. Maybe drop the Banner of the World Dragon on the Noble, give him the Battle Banner, and take the gem of fire on the accompanying Dragon Prince champion?

    5) At 3K points, EVEN with the magical protection you have, you are going to get eaten. I would go for another mage (at 3K you can get one), with more scrolls or maybe the annulian crystal. As you have very few PD, I would expect you to lose the magic phase heavily. Your magical forces are concentrating on defence - I would suggest not bothering with level 2s. And Silver Wand is pointless

    6) Why the Great Weapon on your Prince. He's only S5 then. You could get something cool on the model like the star lance or sword of heroes, or even a plain lance would be better..

  7. #6
    Senior Member niraco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kithre View Post
    If the Drakemaster is the model you are talking about - 1 wound? So you are giving your opponent a wound with the probability of causing maybe 2, and more likely just 1...
    I would reserve Loec for a Prince on a Star Dragon TBH if I wasn't taking the talisman - more attacks, more wounds, more likelhood he'll need it.

    Now to the list:
    1) Why magical weapons on yor champions? Biting blade is good, but a BladeLord is paying for the same save modifier he'd get if he was wielding his normal, free greatsword? And the Drakemaster can't use his lance... i agree with sword master champ (still get to know this AS modifiers as i come from 40k). About the drakemaster. he is not retaining the lance as it will change his hand weapon with the magical weapon?
    If you need amulet of light, fine, but don't give him a magical weapon as well..., and you ought to use magic and your Dragon Lord with the amulet of light as that unit is now packing S7 magical attacks probably you are right here

    2) 23 Swordmasters is a waste - I'd rather go two units, one of 10, one of 13/14, or even reduce the size to 14 and have two ranks. Swordmasters pay for those additional ranks through the nose and are more efificent at causing wounds. Each "rank" if deployed as a 5-man unit, will generate more combat res than a single 23 man regiment will....(unless facing 0+ save enemies with T6 or more) in the few (read 4 games) i had played i cannot work with small units. Any 10 man units is quickly gone to useless numbers and beaten to death. The only game i did not losed badly i used big infantery blocks and combined with high S weapons on lions and swordmasters i could actually do some stuff. I really fail to use them as flankers. they are a spooky unit that work great with stubborn spell from high magic lore.

    3) Same argument with the Lions - why have a huge unit like this? S6 GW don't work if the White Lion has a 4 comrades in front of him. Maybe a unit of 12? Or 2 units of 12? Same reason as before. They beat in CR and cannot use them as flankers (due to low skill still )

    4) I would opt for Battle Banner or Warbanner somewhere. Maybe drop the Banner of the World Dragon on the Noble, give him the Battle Banner, and take the gem of fire on the accompanying Dragon Prince champion? i totally agree is a better combo.

    5) At 3K points, EVEN with the magical protection you have, you are going to get eaten. I would go for another mage (at 3K you can get one), with more scrolls or maybe the annulian crystal. As you have very few PD, I would expect you to lose the magic phase heavily. Your magical forces are concentrating on defence - I would suggest not bothering with level 2s. And Silver Wand is pointless is 2999 so not another mage. at 3000 i would take a second mage.I found that a lev 2 with silver wand and a banner of sorcery is very good to let some spells get trough (even against 8-9 dispel dices). in this build i agree.

    6) Why the Great Weapon on your Prince. He's only S5 then. You could get something cool on the model like the star lance or sword of heroes, or even a plain lance would be better.. is a survival build but probably a kill build with starlance, talisman of loec and some protection would be better. i am too defensive still and the elves is about maneuver not defense
    thx for comments...still learning
    Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky

  8. #7
    Senior Member Zagman's Avatar
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    Drakemaster loses his lance when you give him a magical weapon as he must use the magical weapon.

    Great weapon on a mounted character is only +1 str, so better off with a lance, and especially the star lance with talismon of loec if you can afford it.

    A trick for small unit tactics with the sword masters is let then outpace your block of lions, wo if a unit charges the lions, you get a flank charge on them. For most armies having a small unit ahead of their armies allows the enemy to charge the small unit and break it, not so with swordmasters. Most of the time if something wants to charge the swordmasters and doesn't have impact hits, let them, their loss.

  9. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zagman View Post
    Drakemaster loses his lance when you give him a magical weapon as he must use the magical weapon.
    .
    I thought you could pick between if you wanted to use your magical or normal weapon at the begining of each combat but were stuck with that choice through out that combat?

  10. #9
    Lord Admiral kithre's Avatar
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    The rules for magical weapons state that if the model is equipped with a magical weapon it cannot use any otehr weapons that it carries in place of the magic weapon....hence a model equipped with a magical weapon cannot use a mundane lance or a mundane great weapon.
    ----------
    Quote Originally Posted by niraco View Post
    thx for comments...still learning
    No worries! We're all still learning. This is a good place to learn as well. TBH I am surprised SCR is needed on High Elven Elites apart from Phoenix Guards, but so be it.

    Try 3 ranks - 2 of 7 and 1 of 6, to maximise the attacks you get for only -1 on ranks (which are generally going to lose anyway in a 5x4 block to shooting).

    Cheers and good luck!

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