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Hi guys well as I've got a high elf army well on its way I've put a 3000 pt list together. If those veterans of the Asur would be kind enough to give me their thought I would be more than greatful. Me and my buddies are thinking about doing a mighty empire style campaine together so sometimes the force may be smaller to represent the different types of battles we want to do. But when the chips are down this will be the force that will be facing off against a nasty ogre force, a skaven hoard army, a goblin squig line, and of course the venerable Dan Jones' treturous Druchii.
Here we are:
Banner of sorcery
21 white lions
Banner of eternal flame
Potion of foolhardiness
4 Great eagles
Ok what do you think?
Last edited by FlayedOne583; February 24th, 2011 at 20:48.
i would say: eagle claws!!! those are just simply enough fricken awesome! take four, and you'll have 24 str4 bolts on battlefield. and take the book of hoeth to the archmage.
its ofcourse overkill, but it'll pay it's price, cores are average. specials i would take more white lions cause against ogres they are just awesome, or imagine 21 white lions w/banner of eternal flame against a druchii hydra!! nice list, after all, but eagle claws!!!!
Ok I am not great at 3000 pts under the new edition but my personal feelings here are that the SMs are probably better in smaller blocks, say 14s and maybe 3 of them.
I personally prefer the banner of eternal flame to be on a unit with shooting as it is easier to bring it to bear against the units that have Regen, however without bolt throwers to back the seaguard up it may not be worth it.
40 is an odd unit size for HE spear/seaguard in a horde they fight 5 ranks deep so 50 is better and if you are deploying 5 wide then 8 deep seems like overkill.
My personal feelings is that HE are better to be narrow and deep, we are expensive and squishy so really cannot afford an enemy to be steadfast due to more ranks than us so I like my blocks of spears/seaguard to be 6 deep at least (if I can afford it). It is a trade off, but I rely on my elites to kill and my spears to negate steadfast and hold nasty charges be anvils.
At 3k I would be tempted by a horde of elite troops, either WL or PG, but what you have will provide plenty of punch and this is not really necessary.
I can't remember what the banners do and items do but the +1 leadership banner is great on stubborn WLs and the movement banner is good on SMs.
Hope it works out for you and please keep us up to date with how games are panning out.
Thanks for the feed back guys. I'm afraid bolt throwers have been a damb waste of points (and money) for me I ran with four in another list and a hellpit, a hydra, rinox riders, shrugging them off and them not really denting the troops have put me off if they were cheaper then I'd see your point but 100 points for somthing that has nowhere near the punch of a cannon I'm afraid am not sold.. Book of hoeth has been shunned out of our campaine as has spec chars and the new common item that is a one turn book of hoeth.
Allon I hear what your saying about the seaguard. I'm deploying them 8 wide 5 deep at the moment and walking forward shooting and zapping magic out, this has worked ok thus far. However if Gamesworkshop had took it upon themselves to do new spear models (an ongoing annoyance) I would have spears not seaguard and squeeze in more specs. As for the hord of specs I found they were very powerful however as I failed to mention there is an empire gunline in the mix and 5 morters soon paste any glass hammer deathstar units, however against ogers 41 str 5 hits with reroll was fried gold. I'll let you know with the battles then guys. having a few friendlies soon to finalise lists etc so we will see, thanks again.
8 wide is an interesting idea, is there a particular reason for this or is it based on the opponents that you face and how you anticipate they will fight.
On the horde thing, I would never bother with Swordmasters they are just too squishy, Whitelions with their resilience to shooting (3+ save against the mortar) or PG with their resilience to most things would be my picks.
I am torn about the bolt throwers, I wouldn't take 4 of them I don't think, but my experience 2 of them with them and a unit or 2 of archers and the Shadow lore's toughness hex has been awesome, especially if I can get flaming bows onto someone with regen.
Another thing you may want to consider to back up your infantry are chariots, they have such narrow frontage and can add a bit more punch to a charge without pulling in many additional attacks.
I also agree with RBT being a waste at times... And the armies you will be playing against will only be effective against the Ogres.
Vortex Shard will really only help you with Skaven IMO but even then I feel that there are much better items to counter their magic.
I also agree with making the LSG 5 deep 10 wide... This has proven to be very effective for me in the past, but then again it's down to experience of the player.
Drop the Skien Silver for the silver wand and half your units of SM and WL (10's and 11's). These will just be dishing out tons of damage, and will all most likely die either way. Having extra units will help more.
I also find F/C on WL or SM a waste. Can use those spare points and possible drop 1 or 2 great eagles for a Lion chariot? This will be effective on supporting the flank.
I hope any of this will help.
High Elves \ Ogre Kingdoms \ Lizardmen \ Blood Angels \ Dark Angels \ Dark Elves
W100+/D20+/L100+ \ W17/D0/L2 \ W1/D2/L2 \ W3/D0/L3 \ W7/D2/L9 \ W1/D0/L1
Thanks for the advise guys. The shard is also to handle Mr jones' heavy magic dark elves which I have watched pound the empire line. Chariots are tempting I must say. Mmm will give one ago. My units are 21's to absorb fire but I'll give 14s etc a go.I just like having the plus 2 to go first from the skein silver and setting up first. Tried the 50 sea guard and it just got pounded by blast. All my enemies bar dan have large templates and I was taking off almost 20 a turn the fire power was impressive thou I found I had no were to put my characters.
Ok one battle down and so was I lol. However the reason I lost was my own fault. We were in a bit of a rush and I basically forgot to play my 4th eagle never even deployed him (hand slaps face). I then went on to use the vortex shard at the crucial moment. The turn before my big charge I slung it up their dispelling all the ogre kindoms remain in play buffs. He charged his rinox riders at me but I had made sure I was close enough to negate his impact hits. So the first combat began and possibly the most important one. I had previously cast shimmering robe and sheild on this unit. We rolled the combat and I won handsomely. However then a bystander (my mate that was watching said) dosent vortex shard mean you lose those saves? I agreed without consulting the book we rerolled the combat and I got smashed. This lead me to have to wheel my army a little and throw units as blockers leaving me undercommitted on his tyrant deathstar unit that ended the battle up in a close defeat for me. This made me instantly want to shun metal magic and the shard, but then I read the book. It only dispells remains in play spells not one turn buffs so I would of still had the protection, at this time I also realised I hadent used an eagle. So with red marks on my face from the hand slapping and egg I pretty much decided I had learnt little from this battle apart from how painful ogres are on the return against unprotected units.
So this weekend I face the dark elves of lord Jones, part of me wants to stick with metal to give it a chance but I feel life will be better for this battle. Any ideas would be great however keep in mind when we start the campaine the lore I choose will be the lore I have to run with throughout and before the missread of rules metal was doing ok for me I'd still like to try death too.
I hate battles like that. Regardless how you play you come away feeling like you lost/won because of phases you forgot or rules you didn't know.
Vortex shard really won't work well with Life as they do have a number of Remains in play spells, crucially Throne of Vines.
I feel like i should know more about Dan Jones DE but I am not really sure what's in them. Witch Elves and Black Guard are nasty because we don't get rerolls (they're I6). I like to use my Lords, Nobles and Shooting against them. I have played DE a bit and do ok against them but my lists are wuite different. I worry most about Repeater Crossbow units when I have Swordmasters, so I hope that he doesn't have too many of them. Lore of Life or Metal will both help here though.
A good point about life. Yes I may stick with metal and high for this one. Dan's DE currently are magic heavy, with a large block of spears, corsirs and then a random selection of either, executioners, blackguard, cold ones and a couldren. He also has up to 3 hydras in mind which we are all grumbling about lol! The hydras are another reason for taking metal as it can snipe them off but not as effectivly as shadow and death.
Actual list changes I'm making will be dropping all the champ magic items and a level off my mage. This allows me to put the banner of sorcery on a unit and better protect my battle standard bearer with AoC and Guardian pheonix.