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I've modified my the list that I'd like to take to ard boys this weekend. Looking for a bit of advice from veteran tournament players, but really i'll accept any input. Might not change things, but i'll consider what is said. Here's what I was thinking...
Teclis (life) xxx
Noble BSB w/ Great weapon, armor of caledor, guardian phoenix 168
30 spears w/full command 295
30 spears w/full command 295
15 archers xxx
18 swordmasters w/ full command, banner of eternal flame 310
22 white lions w/ full command, banner of sorcery 410
14 white lions w/ champion, musician, amulet of light 243
2 great eagles xxxx
3 RBT xxxx
All characters go in with large white lion unit, "forcing" teclis to the second rank. Unless that unit gets held back by scenario rules, in which case they'll jump in with the swordmasters. should crap hit the fan, teclis will sooner join a unit of spears than sit in the front rank of my elite infantry. Everything else is pretty straight forward. Bolt throwers thin ranks/take out beasties. Eagle hunt machines/lone characters. the large lion unit and swordmasters can funtion as main units, and the smaller unit (and/or the swords) can provide flanking support where needed/able.
the main issue, is that i have 64 points left over that i can't figure out anything to do with. Not enough to really make any of my units that much more effective, and not enough to start a new unit. I'd be willing to chop an eagle or a RBT to get the extra points up, but i still don't know what i'd do with them. I was thinking about throwing an extra noble in there. maybe toss him on one of the eagles or something. Draw fire if nothing else. What do ya'll think?
First: i'm not a tournament player.
i think your SM and WL blocks are quite large-ish. If you chop a couple of you might free enought points to get a Shadow warrior unit. (I just love the guys).
If your opponent doesn't carefully deploy, you can have a very good warmachine hunter behind its ranks. if you cannot deploy behind its ranks you just have a couple of expensive archers
You could also drop an RBT and add a lion chariot
You could also increase your Spears to 36 and run them 6x6 (or some other niffy amount to enlarge your front)
36 is too many for spears. six ranks deep is just too much, they'd never get used. We only fight in 4 ranks, which means i'd have to lose 13 before losing attacks. If i'm losing 13 models, thats not a fight i'd want to be in anyway. Plus, I don't own 72 spears, so thats out.
shadow warriors are, as you said, nothing more than expensive archers. For a smaller cost, I can purchase an eagle to get the same job done. Better in most cases. Sure, I can't start behind lines with an eagle. But if i can't start behind lines with the shadow peeps, at least the eagle is still cost effective. but i do have some extra points left over, so i might scratch an eagle and get a small unit of 6 shadow warriors, and hope for the best of both worlds.
Lion chariot = not good in tournaments. I like using it every now and then in fun games, but the fact of the matter is that it rarely earns its points back in my experience. Don't break your target on the charge and you're not going to last long. Especially in a tournament setting where there are bound to be at least 2 cannons from each race that can field them, as well as any other large target destroyer. The chariot base makes it difficult to miss, and those weapons typically deal multiple wounds. chariot is gone without a fight.
I will consider dropping the size of the units down a bit though. I kept them large to make sure i'll always have "look out sir", as well as decent rank bonus. My only qualm is that by dropping the size of the sword masters, I'm reducing them to the role of a support unit. And should my lions get held back due to the scenario rules, teclis is a sitting duck for the aformentioned cannons. 14 is the smallest i like to field support units (7*2 works amazingly), so obviously main units have to be a bit bigger. I'll look into it.
here are two builds I was considering for a noble. I'd have to lose a bolt thrower to afford it, but i think i'd rather have the noble up there killing stuff rather than a bolt thrower that is notorious for failing to hit:
Talisman of saphery
sword of might
Only one point difference between them, so its just a matterr of would I prefer the golden shield for a bit of surivability, or the talisman to screw over my opponents characters? I was thinking of taking the BSB and sticking him in another unit, and sticking the saphery noble right next to caradryan. that way, anyone caradryan is in contact with (for the most part, base size permitting), is also in contact with the saphery. Your super lord character now has to face the exploding phoenix guard, and that 70 point weapon of death is just a hand weapon. I'm clearly leaning more towards the offensive noble. He might not last as long, but he'll dish out some pain and make sure that the challange goes that much more in my favor.
If you would like to go with the noble, i would go with a noble with reaver bow in the archers. This makes your archers a lot more killy, and with a great weapon you can kill most war machine hunters with that. He could really help you to guard your back.
thanks for the suggestions. Took third place at the tournamnet, and thus qualified myself for the semi-finals. I chopped the units back a little bit, and made enough points to buy another bolt thrower. Caradyan never exploded (good and bad i guess), and teclis never died. He was close though, rolled a 2 when a wood elf mage irresitably cast dwellers on teclis's bunker in round 3. What killed me was a leadership bomb demon army (who placed first having massacred all three of his opponents) in round 2.
First was a chaos warriors army with a horde of chosen. Got lucky on some key rolls, and was able to charge in with my lions beefed to S7, regen, and shield of thorns. Shield didn't kill but one or two, but every little bit helps. Spanked the chosen and from there it was just cleanup.
Game two got my ass handed to be my the deamons. One unit killed over half my forces. it gave all my units -2 LD, then I'd lose by like one because he'd save more than his fair share of demonic 5+ saves. that -1LD from losing by one, turned into -3... and it was hard to stick around. he tabled me that round. Not a soul left. Which i guess makes up for the fact that I tabled my opponent in round 1.
Round three was against wood elves. Horde of eternal guard, horde of glade guard, 10 wild riders, 10ish way watchers, about 20 dryads. Eagle managed to take out the way watchers, and archers took out over half the wild riders before said riders slaughtered the archers. riders overran right into the flank of my lion unit, and my swords then took them in the flank. that combat was over before it began. by the end of the round all that remained were half the glade guard and half the eternal guard. and a character here and there.
All in all, I loved this list, and I may very well use it again at the semi finals. Thanks again.
Nice to hear your experience with the list.
We don't see that a lot
Great you did get 3 wins in a row, and good luck with the semies