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this is what im thinking of bumping my starting 1k list up to later on
archmage lvl4,silver wand,talisman of preservation (life)
noble,bsb,guardian phoenix,armour of caledor,great weapon
mage lvl1,annulian crystal (high magic)
25x spearmen,full com. (mage)
25x LSG,full com.,warbanner (bsb)
19x phoenix guard,full.com,banner of sorcery (arch mage)
20x sword masters,full com.,banner of eternal flame,iron curse icon
20x white lions,full com.,gem of courage
1x bolt thrower
1x bolt thrower
so im thinking that a good use of the white lions would be to keep tham buffed with one of my ward/regen spells and run them up a flank they should be able to stop most anything in its tracks or at least tie it up hopefully the enemy focuses its fire on them the first couple of turns keeping the rest of my army pretty safe as i storm the rest of my army across the board to get into which ever combats I think I can win. and if they dont shoot at the white lions you wouldnt want a str6 stubborn unit coming across your flanks.kinda wanted to give them the standard of discipline also but didnt have the points,then i thought about dropping a model and putting the bsb in with them but idk if i want my bsb that far away from army.hopefully my bolt throwers can take out warmachines/fast cav. etc. I think this list looks fun was gonna do 2 units of 20 sword masters but decide to go with one unit each.
Last edited by affliction69; June 11th, 2011 at 04:32.
you've got a good solid list.
i would give the Lv4 the book of hoeth though...
I could but then i feel like I might as well take teclis...
I think the mage is good as it is. what lore were you planning on running with?
life sorry forgot to put that on there
Besides the points value, teclis is a special character and an archmage isn't.
There are a LOT of people out there who won't play with speacial characters because most of them are overpowered.
I would also cut down the unit size of the White Lions. making them a unit of 14 (7x2) works great, and frees up a lot of points.
It would give you a chariot, or a unit of shadow warriors, or an eagle, or another RBT maybe?.
Those are HUGE units of elite infantry. I think my stance on them is pretty well known around here, but I seriously cut your Sword Masters into two units of 10 and deploy them on the flanks of your Spears and LSG. Those two core units won't usually win combats on their own, either because they're up against a Horde with a ton of models that grind them with attrition, or because they take on enemy elites who laugh at their T3 and 5+ save. Regardless, sending in a block of Swordmasters to a flank and finishing the job is usually just what you need.
Where are is your Mage and BSB going? You might be able to drop a model from each regiment just like you did in your PG regiment, to save points. Also- if your Archmage or any character that you don't want to fight in a challenge is going into that PG regiment, drop the Champion. An enemy fighter will walk right through the champion if he challenges, and if he does challenge, you're forced to accept with your Unit champ, or he'll send him to the back and bludgeon the archmage anyways. I don't understand why everyone says that if you're escorting a character, you need a champion. The only army that's true for is Warriors of Chaos, because of the stupid Eye of the Gods rule which forces them to challenge in every round of combat that they are able to. If you don't have a Champion, the first time someone challenges you, you can refuse and they have to send the Archmage to the back, safe from harm. Either way, if your Mage stays up front he's doomed, but why waste points on a champion? A smart opponent won't challenge you at all, so that you have to stay up front, or he'll challenge and send the Champ away if you refuse, and then he's just a waste of points.
If you're intent upon keeping the BIG units, you're better off running with White Lions for both of them. Swordmasters pay for an extra attack, whereas Lions are using those points for Stubborn, +1S, and Lion Cloaks. Swordmasters in the second and subsequent ranks are therefore overpriced, because they aren't getting that extra attack they paid for. Lions at least will be Stubborn and resistant to shooting all the way through the regiment.
In smaller regiments (anything in 2 ranks) the Swordmasters will be your better choice for obliterating targets. So if you drop down to 10 or 14, go with Swordmasters.
If you're going to run up a flank, why not pick up Silver Helms or Dragon Princes? They can get there a lot faster, are immune to Stomps, and have a much better armor save against shooting than the White Lions do. You could get 10 of them for the price of your White Lions, and more if you elect to go with Silver Helms (take the Silver Helms, trust me).
While I agree that if your mage is in the front rank, a smart opponent would not challage, you've got a few things wrong here. First, sending the mage to the back does keep him safe, but you can't use his leadership. If he happens to be your general, since you can't use the character's leadership, you can't use the inspiring presence rule. So not only are you potentially screwing yourself in that one combat, but you're also creating potential problems in nearby combats. Also, champions can NOT be sent to the back rank. The opponent can not choose to send the champion to the back ranks and still wail on the mage. Command models MUST stay in the front rank unless replaced by a character. In that case, the mage would still be selected to go back. The reason people say you need a champion to protect a mage, isn't so much to accept challanges, as to issue them. If your champion issues a challange, now thier character must either wail on your champion (instead of your mage) or leave the fighting rank. if they accept with thier champion, thats still one less potential attack going against the frail one. But as High elves, our champions will typically defeat other champions in a challange. Unless its a completely unfair match up (spearman vs. chosen of chaos, anything vs. multi 3+ wound model, spearman vs. empire knight, etc). from there, issue again, and you'll take his character out of combat. maybe even kill it. I played a game against a bretonnian not too long ago, and my swordmaster champion single handedly took out 3 unit champions and 2 characters.
in regards to the silver helms, That seems to be a prefrence. Yes, they're faster. yes, they have better armor. But which will do better in round 2? for that matter, which will do better in round 1? a handfull of S6 attacks, or a handfull of S5 attacks at lower WS? then move on to round 2... S6 or S3? If you do lose that 1-2 models, which hurts more? loss of two lions, or loss of two silver helms? I really don't think cav are worth it at all anymore. Which does displease me, seeing as i have about 100 cav models across the races i play. I would suggest staying with the lions, but dropping them to 18 (6x3).
Good catch Finchtt- I was assuming that since command are (were in 7th) "characters" who cannot leave their units, Champions were eligible to be sent back. I still say that it works well on paper but isn't really worth the points- I play Chaos Warriors, 2 average warriors will chop up a mage in short order, regardless of whether or not I get to use my Champion or Exalted. Basically, it's my opinion that if your Mage is in the unit, and the unit is in combat, the mage is vulnerable. They'll kill him with 4 models (2+2supporting) or they'll send a Champion or Hero running after him.
Silver Helms are definitely a preference, and I know how you feel- you have 100 across all races, I have ~100 in High Elves alone, as I used to play an all-cav list. At any rate, I understand that when it comes to static combat or combats lasting more than 1 round, the White Lions definitely take the cake. When he mentioned running them up a flank though, I thought that he intended to get across the board and getting into support units like bowmen or gunners. If he keeps the Lions for that job, I'd move the Ironcurse over to them (keep them alive while they're trudging) and drop them to 18, as you suggest.
yea it was early one morning i posted this so i forgot to put my lores and which units they were going into but I fixed that now,I couldnt take one model less on the units where the bsb/lvl1 were going into because as they are at exactly 625 points.also about the lions I was thinking of waiting and placing them on a weak flank and moving every thing forward its just that if they focus warmachines/shooting on the bulk of my army (probably my sword masters) then the lions will be untouched by the time they reach charge range and they can do their thing.conversely if they see the lions as oh crap I better deal with these guys and focus their fire on them instead the other side will be untouched and thats good too.not really about speed so much as a big block of lions looks/is scary and i feel being stubborn they can take on other units for quite a few turns hopefully.and ill def be buffing them every turn if possible.so all in all i should have cleaned up most of one side by them time the lions die if they die that is.i could do 18 which is what i was going to do its just if i buy 2 boxes id have 20models and i thought lions did better in bigger units.id like to do lions 18 and 2 14 man sword masters units but think im short on points