Welcome to Librarium Online!
Mostly playing with two buddies right now, one has Warriors of Chaos, the other Orcs and Gobbos.
I had been fielding LSGs and a RBT, but found that the glass cannon thing became less fun after about Turn 3. Trying to beef up the army and came up with two alternatives, the first being closer to what I have, the second being a "totally out of left field" move compared to what they've seen from me in past games.
Here goes, and thanks for any feedback in advance.
LSG x 20
PG x 10
SM x 14
Total: 997 points
Spearmen x 25
PG x 10
SM x 12
Archmage (imbedded with PG)
Total: 998 points
Thanks again for any help, and sorry this thing ended up so damn long...
Last edited by JudsonCc; June 19th, 2011 at 09:29.
In both lists get rid of shadow armour on your champions in PG. If you read the rules for it, its useless. It basicaly gives you heavy armour which you already have. If you were an independant character you could scout or scout whislt joining shadow warriros, but as you are not an IC you have just paid all your points on your unit champion for something you already have.
Dragon Scale Shield, once again get rid. You strike first at WS6 with 3 S5 attacks. the way your blade lord is equipped currently means you have 3 S3 attacks with a 3+ save and 6+ ward. Lets put it this way, if you kill somthing first then it isnt going to be able to hit you. There is no point in going deffensive on one guy in an offensive unit. You could also afford to drop both the Standard and unit champion if you are going to use them alongside your SG/SM which you should be doing, as they will gain the Standard benifits in combat from them. You shoudl get your opponent charging you SG/SM block, hoping it holds,then smashing the flanks of your enemy with the SM in your turn. If your SM or PGget charged instead then return the complement with your block unit to negate your enemys ranks, its not perfect in this situation but you must always use HE units together.
On either your Spearmen or Seaguard look at adding a warbanner. This will help to win combat and give them some staying power.
Your character choices are not right for 1000pts;
Your first list makes you mage (very fragile) unprotectable being on a steed as he cannot bunker down in units for cover.
You second list you have just paid a huge amount of points for 1 extra spell and +1 to casting rolls.
Just give a lvl 2 the silver wand, then decide if you want to give him either the Ring of Fury from the HE book, or Ruby Ring from the BRB if you want an extra spell in the form of a bound spell, or go defensive and take Guardian Phoenix for a 5+ ward.
Which Lore of Magic are you using on you mage? You need to decide when making you list in 8th eddition, High magic is ok and has some nice spells, but also consider Lore of Life and Lore of Shadow, both Lores have spells to increase the effectiveness of your troops by strengthening your troops or weakening your opponent.
I would look at:
25 Spearmen: 270
12 Sword Masters: 186
11 Phoenix Guard: 195
5 Shadow Warriors: ##
I dont think may people will complain about being 1 point over but you can always drop a musician off the SM if your desperate, but better off dropping the Spearman champion.
-hope this helps-
Last edited by saltrock36; June 19th, 2011 at 09:04.
Thanks for the quick reply. The larger issue with the special items is that I misunderstood their applicability. I thought, if equipped by a champion, they applied to the entire unit. Reading it now, I can see why that's a really stupid mistake, but I suppose it was one of those things that stuck with me the first time I read it and never realized it was a mistake.
Forgive the further n00bness, but what is a warbanner? I'm guessing that's not a BSB since that has to be carried by a character (or does a champion count for this purpose?) and it's 25 points, not the 20 you indicate. I see that I can use First Among Equals, but none of the three banners that are 25 points or less are 20 points, nor do they seem particularly useful. I know I'm missing something, but can't figure out what.
EDIT: I found the war banner you were talking about in the general rules, but it looks like it's even more expensive than you indicated, busting the 25 points maximum. Am I missing something else now? :-p
Would you consider taking the Dragonscale Shield on the mage since it's a little cheaper and get you 5+ armor save (albeit at the cost of ward save going from 5+ to 6+)? Or is the better ward save more worthwhile in this case?
Lastly, who would you have the mage hunker down with? Phoenix Guard, I'm guessing?
Thanks for all the great points you made. Really pointed out a lot of things I hadn't fully considered/didn't understand. Still new to the game (only a couple of games under my belt), so I appreciate you pointing out some obvious things.
Last edited by JudsonCc; June 19th, 2011 at 10:10.
Okay, trying to take some learned lessons into account, how do we feel about this army?
Spearmen x 25 (5x5)
Swordmasters x 14 (7x2)
Swordmasters x 14 (7x2) (second unit)
Total: 1000 pts
Even though the mage is mounted, I'm under the impression he CAN still join other units. Please let me know if I'm mistaken about this. Also considering ditching mount and Guardian Phoenix and picking up Ring of Fury. Would take me to 1003, which is fine for our games.
Last edited by JudsonCc; June 20th, 2011 at 04:03.
About the warbanner: you van use the rules for the items as they are in the BRB, but with the points cost in the Armybook.
Because the warbanner is also noted in your armybook (start of magic items) we can use it for that given points value.
That's also the reason why the enchanted shield will still cost us 10 points in stead of 5.
'Its better to have a swordmaster and not need her help, then to need her help and not have her'
Byjugo's WIP Thread
I need to know how you intend on using your mage. Becuase if you put him on a steed he cannot get a "lookout sir" roll when in a unit. being a different base size to your infantry means he will also be sat on one of thier flanks if he is in a unit (which i recomend), so a flank charge could se him killed easily. Drop the mount and keep him on foot unless you buy a big unit of dragon princes to sit him in. In 7th edition when cavalry was alot more effective and you could get a "lookout sir" roll even while in a unit on a horse, then i would sugest giving it a try. As it stands however, get rid of the horse.
Magic items on your mage, totaly you preffernce. I come from playing dawrfs so i dont leave home without a good defence, but if you think you can manage offensively then go for it. Just remember that you still ned to throw a die at bound spells and that your general as you mage will have to be very carefull.
On a more important note, you still need to decide on a Lore of magic for you mage. in 7th you could decide before each game what lore to take but in 8th you must decide on a lore whilt writing you list. I'm assuming your going with high magic at the moment. Just remember Lore of Life atribute is that after casting a spell you can regain a wound each time i think. could be usefull with no defence on him, also theres a spell to increase your Toughness and the Toughness of your unit. Just a thought.
Take it your mage would be sat in the Spearmen at this point.
Drop the standards on the Sword Master units. If anything you are better off with Musicians. If you draw a combat having a musician inceases your result by 1, but also if you read in the BRB about quick reforming it means you can spin on the spot and change the direction you are facing, and then if you pass a Ld roll you may make a futher move with the same unit. This is very very important for HE as it means you can get your weak fragile units out of danger spots quickly or turn and move to face an enemy on your own terms. HE are glass cannons, especialy Sword Masters, you can pack a punch but often you shatter if your not careful. Instead of unit Champions you may be better off affording another model in each unit aswell, somthing that you can do if you drop the Banners, and Horse, and unit champions. You may even fit in the War Banner if im right about it only costing ##pts in the HE book.
Think it would look like this;
Mage = 185
Ring of Fury ( i may be over guessing the cost of this item by 5pts or so )
25 Spearmen = 270
War Banner (still got to double check points cost for this but im sure im rite)
14 Sword Masters = 216
14 Sword Masters = 216
RBT = ##
Total = 987pts,
so 13 points to play about with if you want a a unit Balde Master or standard in one of those SM. Problem with standards is for every one you loose your opponent gains extra Victory points, so by not having them you are restricting his ability to manopolies on your small expensive units even further.
You asked about War Banner earlier, I may be wrong but i think in the HE book at the very begining of magic items, you should find it there at just ##pts. I may be wrong, i know our dispel scrolls are only ##pts buti thought our War Banner was as well. What a War Banner does as itsmagical effect i add an addition point of combat reselution to the unit/fight it is involved in, similar to a BSB but with no additional effects.
So for example... 20 spearmen ranked 5 wide by 4 deep, with Full Command and the War Banner (as a magical banner) would have a combat reselution of 5 and not 4. (3 additional ranks + 1 unit standard + 1 for the War Banner = 5 ). On top of this you add any wounds you cause, as you know.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the clarification on items and their cost. I didn't realize the BSB rules and army book pricing situation.
Didn't realize you couldn't get the LOS with different bases. So that makes since to me now. Since if I bunker the Mage with the spearman I'll want to avoid close combat even against manageable units (because, if I understand this correctly, he'll be forced to hang out up front and will clearly be targeted), would I be better off fielding a comparable number of Archers to get me the required percentage of core? He can hang out there safe in the knowledge that there's no way I'd dispatch that unit to fight. Or am I better off still taking spears and then moving the Mage out of the unit the turn before I take combat?
As for magic, I'd been going with the HE lore, but looking hard at Life. It would seem to perhaps make more sense, especially if the Mage is going to be more defensive.
Thanks again, all.