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So it has been a good 8 - 10 years since I have had the time or the money to play warhammer, and I am finally getting back into it. So I know that you guys have probably had thousands of threads like this, but I was wondering if I could get some help on a good way to start a NEW High Elves army. I sold my old one years ago and in light of the many revisions that have been made to my beloved little pointy ears, I need some help on the best way of going about starting that new Host of Ulthuan. I just bought the new codex and the new Warhammer FB rule book, so I have that info, and unfortunately I bought the HE battallion boxed set (it's unfortunate, because I read in another thead that its a waste of money, but I got it on Ebay and saved a ton of money). Anyway any help would be great. I want to start with a 2K point army and work my way up to 2500. Also I want a tournament ready team, as I am way too competitive. Lastly, I was wondering if it ever makes sense to use Teclis? he seems like such an awesome and powerful Archmage (maybe the best in the game). Any help is greatly appreciated!
Well 1st of all Ghost welcome back and I'm glad it's our pointy eared friends that you came back to.
1st off the battalion isn't worth the cost, (although off ebay is much better), but it does give you a lot of the basics you will need with the exception of the Silverhelms which you will hardly ever need. Fear not though as they are really easy to convert in to Dragon Princes or Ellyrion Reaver.
Really you need to decide which type of army you want to fit with your playing style. HE really can excel in any phase and fit any playing style or you could go for a more rounded list. Me I usually go with an extremely magic heavy army supported by a couple of large blocks of infantry and flanked with some fast hard hitting units.
Looking through the new book you will no doubt have noticed that one of the new changes is that we ALLWAYS strike 1st in combat now. So 1st on my list is usually a large block of Spearelves. I usually like to try and fit a unit of 21 in my armies with full command. At this number with them fighting in three ranks against a lot of opponents they will all get to strike before your opponent even gets to attack. It's also priceless to see your opponents face when you pick up 21 dice to roll.
You will also need to choose another core choice in a 2000 point army so you can either go for another unit of spears or my preference a small unit of archers without any upgrades, (just aint worth the points).
Now on to our lovely 'Specials' section. This is another thing that has changed recently in that we can take more special and rare choices than is standard.
Here you really want to chose maybe another large block of infantry, (I go for Phoenix guards), and then a couple of smaller hard hitting units. Sword Masters are now awesome in CC when they get there, Great Weapons and ASF is deadly, but they will attract shooting and magic like nothing else so often won't get in to a fight unless they are vastly depleted although there are some nice spells if you do go magic heavy to protect them. I usually use these as a small flanking unit although I think that most people prefer the White Lions for this role as they have a nice save versus shooting and still keep the GW with ASF.
Another unit which you see used a lot is Dragon Princes which IMO are best used in small units of 5 or 6 maybe with a mounted Lord or Hero. They are brilliant down the flanks and can be real game winners if you chose your fights well with them.
Silverhelms are also in here but IMO not worth the points and also I'm not a big fan of Chariots but if used correctly they can be nasty when charging in to the flanks of units already engaged.
You will also probably need something to disrupt the enemies plans so you can chose between a few different units this. Ellyrion Reavers are great at protecting your flanks and chasing anything down that gets behind your army. Eagles used in pairs are brilliant at forcing the enemy to slow march across the table so you can hit them with more shooting and magic and, although not many people like them, I love Shadow Warriors as they can slow the enemy down and also take on most of the opponents war machine although they have a very low life expectancy.
Really the only other thing you will need is a couple of RBT that most people, (including myself)
try and always fit in to any list.
Teclis is a great character and if you do want to go magic heavy there really is no one better in the game. Once again this will depend on your playing style as to which characters you want. I only really like using the named characters in really big games (3000 +) but whatever rocks your boat.
Most players I know tend to lean toward either going all out magic or really just make sure they have enough to shut down the enemies phase. There are also some nice builds for Princes and Nobles but I find that the average HE is good enough in combat that I normally don't take any except on the odd occasion I will take a BSB. One again purely your preference to who you want to lead your army.
Really as long as you try and take advantage of the ASF rule and remember that we are great at hitting things but sometimes struggle to damage them and we are one of the most manoeuvrable armies out there so you need to choose your fights as much as you can. Oh and in case I haven't mentioned it yet we really are quite good at magic .
These are just my opinions but there is a really good tactica by Lord Brrrp that should give you more ideas and is definitely worth reading.
Hope this helps.
All this helps a ton. When I used to play HE I never used much magic, but I think that this Ed is more magic friendly/emphasized. Reading through the book has made me think more magic = more wins, or at least a good balance will certainly help.
I do love the Sword Master, and am looking forward to their extra attack and ASF, but know that i will be frustrated if they get absolutely descimated before they can ever get into combat. I also love the White Lions, so I don't know if I could choose just one (maybe a unit of each). I do like the fact that the WL can move through the woods without penaly, as this provides a good shield against shooting as well, but they seem less favoured troughout the threads. I am definately looking forward to getting my army going, and can't wait to hit the battlefield.
As far as the magic goes, what lore/lores do you use? I am definately going to go more magic heavy this time around, also what leves mages do you buy?
Glad it helped.
Yes your right I cry almost every time I take another one of my Swordmasters off the battlefield but I figure that if they are shooting at them then something else is being left alone. This is also another reason why I tend to use them in small blocks so that I can use the terrain to the best advantage and also if needs be keep them shielded behind another unit and use them as a really devastating counter attacking unit. There potential for chewing armies apart is just too great for me to resist. White Lions are nice as also in small units you can use woods to shield them and then because of their 'woodsmen' ability send them running through the wood to attack the flanks or enemies. I just prefer to use a unit of 5 Dragon Princes with the Banner of Ellyrion for this role.
I'm glad your of my way of thinking towards magic as it is a lot more formable now to when you were last playing. No it won't win a battle by itself but it can sure as hell go along way towards it. Also as well as Lizardmen and armies of Tzeeench nothing throws it around better than HE.
I usually run with one Archmage upgraded to level 4 and tool him up with the Book of Hoeth, (bit cheesy), and then another Mage upgraded to level 2 with Silver Wand and Ring of Fury. I then usually take another Mage also upgraded to level 2 who I change the equipment with depending on who I'm facing. He also sometimes get changed for a BSB. I'm also trying out a few ways to fit a Dragon Mage in an army although I've not quite figured out how these are best used yet....but I will
As far as magic lores are concerned this is another one of the beauties of HE as they can take any of the main lores they like or our very own that just happens to be one of the best. I make sure I take at least one of my mages with High Magic just for Shield of Saphery which will help keep your costly units alive. As well as this Lore of Life has some great spells to protect us and Lore of Metal can be great at covering some of our weakness against missile fire and heavly armoured opponents. Really if you are going magic heavy its worth spending some extra time looking over the different spells as it's nice to be able to chose the lore that will most annoy your opponent and what they are likely to bring to the table.
Last edited by Esgalisil; January 21st, 2008 at 18:26.
Wow thanks again!
I will take all of this advice to the bank! I notice that a lot of people really love the Dragon Princes, but they also seem like one of the most expensive units in the game. If I remember correctly they have a 5+ save, which seems like they would get taken out pretty easily. They do have the choice of upgrading to a 2+ save (again if I remeber correctly) with the armour upgrade. Is this upgrade worth it? I don't see a lot of people using this upgrade in their lists...
Also, a level 4 Archmage is very expesive, add to that the Book of Hoeth and your looking at almost a Teclis point level right? Why not just take Teclis, get the ability of the book of hoeth and every spell in the lore you choose? Does a level 4 Arch make more sense in a 2K point army? Also when you take all these mages, do you hide them inside of units? or do you have them walk on their own? I also love the fact that they have a Dragon Mage, and have never used a Dragon in my old days of gaming, because it just didn't seem to be practical, but maybe now.
I see a lot of favour falling upon the Phoenix Guard these days, when I did not even look twice at them in the past. What is their main roll in this new list and how are they best used.
On another note, I love the High Elves, I think they are by far the coolest army in the Warhammer World. I just wanted to state that, as I am new to LO, people should know where my allegiances lie!! (although i do think the TK are an extremely cool army as well!)
Again thanks Esgalisil I really appreciate all your help! It is really helpful to have someone who knows what they are talking about when it comes to getting back into this stuff. I have read some of the Tacticas and they are very helpful, but it helps to talk to someone with some battle tested ecperience!
Dragon Princes have a 2+ save as standard, because they have Dragon Armour, Shield and Barded steed. These all combine to make 2+, which isthe best save that the High Elves can get without using magic items.
It's entirely up to you whether you want to use Teclis or not. I've not tried him, but I like some of his abilities. The only thing that worries me is how easy he is to kill, so if you do take him try to make sure to protect him. The best thing about the Archmage is the options you have. You don't need to take the book of Hoeth (but it is good!), and there are a large variety of combinations you can take.
I wouldn't recommend mages wandering around on their own because that way they are too vulnerable. Put them inside units, because there they can't be picked out by enemy shooting and they are much safer from your enemy's small fast units which can take out a lone mage fairly easily. You could send them out on their own if you wanted if you gave them Forliath's robe because that makes them much safer, but that would mean that they wouldn't be able to have magic boosting items.
The strength of the Phoenix Guard is in survival. An enemy has to be really determined to kill them because of the 4+ Ward save. Also, the fact that they cause fear and have Ld9 as well as having the ward makes for a unit that's very hard to kill. Often you can get an enemy unit into combat with them and hang around while you set up a flank charge, or if you add a character they can be quite good at killing things too. Last week I played a game where my unit of Phoenix Guard with a BSB obliterated a a big unit of Ogre Bulls with a bruiser (which was a simialr points cost to my unit), despite me forgetting to roll my champion's extra attack and forgetting to add the +1 CR for my BSB. I didn't lose a single elf.
I never used the Phoenix Gaurd in my previous list, but I can't see how I can justify not using them now! Would you consider them to be the best unit to set up flanks for charges that the HE have? It's good to know that the DP 2+ standard, that is very nice! In what situations would you not take DP's I see a lot of the lists not taking them. I can't imagine not using 2 UNITS!!! Although they are still extremely expesives. I also like the idea of using them with the Banner of Ellyrion and moving them through the woods. Has this worked well for the rest of you? My closest buddy who I will probably play the most is a Wood Elves player and I am obviously going to need a unit that can negate his ability to move easily through the thick brush!
Ancalagon, how do you use Magic? What have you found that works best for you, are you a big magic player, or are you more conservative?
Thanks so much for the input!
I like the idea of lots of magic because that is a big part of the HE, so I'd normally use at least a couple of mages in 2000 point games, but that's just my preference. I also like the banner of sorcery for the extra power dice. That's a really handy thing to have in a magic heavy army, so I'd put that on a unit standard bearer that is allowed a banner, and pick whatever upgrades I felt like for my mages. I like the Silver wand and the Jewel of the Dusk, but everybody has their favourites.
Thanks again! I really appreciate, which unit do you guys normally include your BSB in? All this is great, and I am going to continue to build my are ASAP!!
I'd put the BSB in a unit that will be fairly central to your battle line so as many units as possible benefit, and normally in a unit that you feel might want a boost in combat.