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I'm fairly new to the high elves army..why is there no point taking command for archers and only having 10? I'm just curious to know why....
If anyone can think of any good army lists to face Orcs and Goblins that would be appreciated.
There are a few reasons. Firstly, 10 is good, incase you don't have a hill in you're deplyment, and then they have to form up in one long line. anything more than 12 or so becomes too long, and can get in the way. The reason for no command, is because they are poor fighters, and will probably lose combat if they ever get engaged, being only S3 A1. It's basicly 100 free VP's for the enemy.
The purpose of these units is usually to tkae care of fast cav, other enemy shooters who you may outrange, knock off a rank bonus or two form the enemy before you engage them, etc, not to win combats or whole ganes for you.
Missile units that contain full commands need to able to take extra weapon options than just a HW. For example, I know plent of people that use Dark Elf crossbowmen 20 strong, RxB's, shield, full command. The shield is the key here. In combat, they are as good, if not better, than empire Swordmen, and the front rank gets two shots as well. Works kinds like a Seaguard unit (That's a shooty unit you can take full command with if you want ). What you do, is rank them up 2*10, hopefuly on a hill. Shoot the hell out of the enemy as they approach, and re-from 5*4 when they get near. They should be withered down enough for their charge to bounce right off, esp if the unit has high ground!
Hope this helps, Tim
Last edited by timk1111; April 5th, 2008 at 10:09.
well Tim has really said it all i must say.
The small unit size is used indeed for the fact you don't alsways have a hill to deploy. It also allows you to manouver more easily acros the field when you have to redeploy.
The only command i would suggest on a acrher unit is a musician. Even though they are "cheap"in elven standards it is still over 100 points. A musician is IMO always handy in case they flee and have to rally denying you're opponent just that extra few VP's.
If you want something that shoots then take Tim's suggestion with the Seaguard, though keep in mind SG only have bows instead of longbows and so have less range!
Hope it helps
"Ask not the Eldar a question, for they will give you three answers; all of which are true and terrifying to know"
hi, I always take 2x10 archers, both with musician instead of 20 archers because it alows me to shoot different targets, wich I think is bettter than having to direct all your firepower on the same target.
Hope this helps, good luck;Y!
Facing Orcs and Goblins will be an interesting one. Virually the exact opposite to HE, with the ability to really horde it out, and be tough...hmmm...
Still, O&G need close combat, so this will still be good. My main tip would be to try and ASF to your advantage. Blocks of Spearmen would lay down some hurt here for sure, as will pretty much anything if he charges you head on.
I used to Dark Elves at 1k, and I ran one block of 20 spearmen, 10x Crossbowmen, 1x Sorceress, 2 Bolt throwers and 8 dark riders with standard, muso.
The Dark riders did really well, acually. They were able to get off plenty of shots, protect the sorceress, and were realy good flankers, too.
Id imagine HE could be run in a similar way. Block of Spearmen, 10 archers, 2 bolties, or 1 boltie and 1 eagle (stone throwers will ruin your day, so an Eagle will REALLY help, here..), mage, some Dragon Princes...dunno what that all comes to though. Small unit of white lions wuold help too.
Do you have a particular style you want to play towards? HE can lend themselves toward offensive, defensive, magic heavy, etc.
EDIT: Heres a small list I've knocked up. Basicly what my DE consisted of, transfered to HE (I think the principles are abou the same
H - Mage
Level 2, Jewel of the Dusk, Guardian Phoenix
C - 21x Spearmen
C - 10x Archers
S - 5x Dragon Princes
F/C, Banner of Ellyrion
S - 8x Shaddow Warriors
R - Repeater Bolt Thrower
R - Eagle
TOTAL - 997
Gives a bit of magic, shooting, combat, and flanking. Expansion to 1500 would see maybe another mage, and some White lions or so.
This worked for me at 1k (with DE's remember), so see how you go. The only differences in the list are the eagle, imstead of another bolt thrower (but I'd take flyers where I can anyway), and Heavy Cav instead of Fast Cav, but you can swap what you like, for what ever.
So, up against O&G, you have some shooting to deplete ranks, scouts to flush out fanatics, and shoot ar warmachines, flyers for mahcine hunting, march blocking and flanking, heavy cav to so some flank smashing, nice block of spears to absorb a charge, then ASF, and a bit of magic to do as you wish with.
Hope this helps, Tim.
Last edited by timk1111; April 5th, 2008 at 15:21.
First of all the idea of archers and Lothorn Sea Guard are great! I love the models and the idea of archers that can fight (guard) and 30" shots scare me, well not me, but maybe my gobbos.
I am an Orcs and Goblins player, but I also have a lot of experience with Dark Elves, Wood Elves, Dwarves, Ogres, and Tomb Kings. When my boyz take to the battle field none of them have stinkin' bows, I use a couple of spear chukkas thats it. I think if you are going to see boys in a greenskin army it's more likely to be short bows on fast cavalry or short bows in the hands of foot goblins.
The advantage of your enemy having so little fire power is that Orcs and Goblin armies usually rely on tough units in close combat, which is where sword masters shine. Even a unit of Black Orcs with a hero in it would be hard pressed to beat them. And your bows would do a lot of damage to the light cavalry and lets say night goblins who probably have some fanatics hiding in there.
Not surprised your O&G army doesn't have many bows, you're usually better off with more boyz in your combat squads. It's the artillery that can hurt, tho.Even those Spear Chukkaz can shred a Dragon Prince each, per turn, and they only have to kill 1 to make their points back! Enter the great eagle....
Tim did you get my message about my army list...if you could just look it over and tell me what you think that would be great!
Just a thought but does anyone use the dogs of war crossbowmen instead of archers? same range, stronger hits, rare spots to burn, and cheaper! or is it just not very sporting?
Last edited by Jkeg; April 6th, 2008 at 23:36.
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