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~Ok, so my friend just started up with Lizardmen. They used a slann mage priest in 2000 points. ummm.... Slann Mage priests win. They win hardcore. A lot.
~So I'm wondering exactly how to kill him? Is there a hidden technique? What is going on? He ends up with a eight wound, +2 Ward save against ranged attacks, and immune to miscast beast from the very winds of magic themselves?!?
~All help is much obliged. Thank you kindly.
~~I haven't versed him personally, but he managed to kill 1000 points of my friend's wood elves in two turns. The WE had circled around the unit of Temple Guard and the Slann, then he used the highest spell from lore of light and completely destroyed: A four-strong unit of treekin, five wounds to a treeman, an entire unit of wild riders, two units of glade guard, and a unit of wardancers. Needless to say, it did not go well...
Last edited by Quendi d'Jhaelian; May 4th, 2008 at 04:53. Reason: My friend got whipped.
You don't kill Slann with HEs... you wreck everything else, and win on VP. If for some reason you can't do that, you find a way to break their unit in combat, then run it down. Granted if the opponent is smart enough to give the BSB upgrade, it's harder to do that second one, especially with cold-blooded, but it isn't impossible.
Other armies have some alternate strategies available, but I'm guessing you're probably not interested in those.
Sounds like the Slann you reference though is 2nd Generation, which is a huge risk to run at only 2k. It eats a character and a rare slot, and if you intend on running 2 priests with it, you're looking at 800 to 900 points in character allottment (if I can remember LM points costs and accurately estimate), and if it dies somehow, your opponent can do no better than a draw. So typically the best strategy against a 2nd Gen. Slann is to throw every combat unit you have at it, all at once, and pray to god you break it and run it down. IMHO, he's much better off just using a 4th Gen. most of the time at 2k, maybe 3rd Gen. at most.
ga1661 is right. Running down a Slaan is much easier than killing a Slaan. Besides, you can match LM for magic.
You can run a very potent offense of your own, not to mention a stout defense. What does your list look like, Quendi d'Jhaelian?
I've never faced a Slann, but I think with so many points invested in one powerful character you have two options. One is to ignore the Slann and crush the rest of his (relatively small) army, and hope that the Slann doesn't do the same amount of damage to you. The other is to concentrate as much as you can on bringing the Slann and his unit down, and virtually ignore the rest of the lizards until you've managed it. If you can, look at the Slann and the unit he's running in, and see if you can figure out the best way to destroy them, which will probably be through breaking them and running them down as has been said.
Thou shalt remember:
Warhammer Fantasy armies do NOT have Codices. They have Army Books.
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~I haven't thought of a list quite yet, because I won't be playing against him for a little while. Are there any units that would be a good choice?
~I almost always have a good portion of my Specials be White Lions, and they seem a good option for LM. Would bolt throwers be a good choice? Sending the single bolt at the block of Slann-blockers?
Single bolts are rarely worth it against anything but large targets, the Slann is not one if I remember correctly, either way multiple shots will be far more reliable against the temple guards.
Was awhile since I played against one, but if memory serves they have some ward save against ranged and that coupled with his monstrous W and T and temple guards (which has to be killed first) you won't be shooting him to death in 6 turns.
There's a sure-kill way to get rid of him though, if his temple guard aren't stubborn (can't remember again ) you can simply get a mounted BSB with battle banner and put him with a unit of dragon princes. This breaks just about anything on a charge
Would probably work for infantry aswell, but I don't like having the BSB on foot personally, elves are just too frail to be that expensive without armor.
The Temple Guard definately are stubborn. And they are going to massacre those DPs as soon as the 2nd turn of CC starts .
Well, a few more comments on this that I forgot to point out before...
Typically at 2k LM tourney players aren't taking TG because the point cost is too high to allow them to take other stuff, particularly if they want a 2nd Gen. Slann. However, if they are taking TG, the rest of the list is usually vulnerable if you can keep away from the Slann and that bodyguard unit of TG.
As mentioned, TG are stubborn with the Slann, so usually the Slann will have the banner that makes them cause fear (and thus immune to it), so outnumbering them with fear-causers won't work. Thus if they are testing on a stubborn 8, it's going to be nearly impossible to break them because of their cold-blooded.
At 2k, most of the LM generals I know either run the Slann (which is a large target BTW) with a normal Saurus unit, or by himself and goes to hide in a terrain feature like a forest. You can't shoot the thing to death without multiple cannons because you need the S10 multi-wounds to really count when you do get past his ward save. The "break unit and run him down" tactic is obviously more effective against either of these, but my point is that overall your most effective strategy will be killing everything else and winning on VP, assuming your opponent isn't stupid.
It's quite hard to ignore a Slann when he's pumping out potentially game winning spells every turn, and is the centre of the army. My Slann has TG and causes fear. It's a lot of points but I'm yet to lose him in a game (in fact I'm yet to lose a game with him, but that doesn't really mean much on it's own)
I think HE have a better chance than most armies. Book of Hoeth and Pit of Shades kills the Slann dead, you're not garuanteed to get it but I guess you could take Teclis instead of tha archmage.
Teclis is a very good mage for the points. Plus if he gets HE lore then he can cast Curse of arrow attraction or flames of the pheonix (if its irresistable does it mean it can't ever be dispelled? not sure) which would rip through the bodyguard and leave the slaan vulnerable.
Failing that, theres always drain magic!
Dragons are pretty good for flanking, none of my other units seem to be fast enough or have high enough unit strength to get the job done.