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At the moment i'm playing mostly 1000 or 2000 point games. My regular opponant is Empire, and in the last 1000pt game, took the following:
8 Knights with Sigmar Priest
20 Halberders with 10 swordsmen detachment
Hellbaster Volley Gun
At this points level I typically have 2 level 2 mages, or 1 mage and one noble, either with the battle standard or with a lance on horseback if I've taken my own cavalry.
Either cavalry or large pheonix guard unit
Spare points will net me a small unit of 10 archers.
In this last game I used the pheonix guard, with the BSB (battle banner, expensive but saved my ass), spearmen, 1 mage and bolt thrower. With alot of difficulty making sure his war machines were either out of range or had no decent targets, I managed a draw, beating him by 9 victory points. He was very unlucky with his cannon misfiring half the battle, and the hellblaster had moved forward enough looking for range that I managed a charge into it with the PG after winning combat aginst is infantry. The spearmen held off the cavalry all game until being run down in turn 5 (again, I love spearmen!).
It just strikes me how impossible I found the battle, had he sat back he could have just shot be to pieces as i'd be forced to advance (cannon vs bolt thrower is no contest, only in this case misfires and blocking units went to my favour allowing it to survive past turn 2 for a change).
So what can be done against the artilery-cavalry combination Empire? What units would you recommend, and what tactics do you use?
(I won't start on the 2000pts when he adds flagellents and a steam tank, and a whole lot more handgun toting units)
Cheers in advance!
Lore of metal works great against heavy armoured units like knights, as well as war machines like cannon and that steam tank.
you have several huge advantages over him. Magic (he has very little) so you can take out the warmachines before they kill you. Helstorm Rocket is priority. Cannon can really only kill a few guys at a time. all his artillary has the range to hit you so you can't really hide from it. You're going to get shot at so just be glad you have ward saves.
The other advantage you have is decent weaponskill and troops. You want to be in combat with him, because you'll destroy him. Your PG champion is just as good as his general in combat (even a bit better) and costs a 1/5 the points. Get into combat and kill him. Knights are good on the charge, but after that, they should go down to combat resolution. You don't need a battlebanner, get a few more troops. Things like great eagles and shadow warriors can redirect and tie up his cavalry. You should be able to tackle a bunch of halberdiers. Kill the detachement first and then you are bound to win.
Remember, if you're in combat, he can't shoot at you. Magic the warmachines (fury of khaine works for me) and then throw the RBT at them. Kill the crew and their worthless. Then aim for detachments and fast cav and then get into combat. Pretty simple. Now if he adds an archlector on pope mobile, things can get tricky, cause then he'll outmagic you if he knows what he's doing, but you should still be able to handle him. Sounds like you need a bit more practice.
at 2000pts, you may think about adding some white lions (swordsmen get no save) and stubborn and dragon princes are usually pretty good if they can avoid that first volley of guns.
Take your own Knights, in large numbers, he simply doesn't have the blocks to defeat two squadrons of Dragon Princes.
Magic as stated above - he only has one Battle Wizard in 100 points, you can easily match this. I would take two Repeaters for the "Horror" factor - he can roll out his cavalry or hide them and you destroy the rest of his army piecemeal - Cannon and the Helblaster are also quite easy targets for Shadow Warriors and Eagles....
[QUOTE=buckero0;1204188] Helstorm Rocket is priority.QUOTE]
Me eyes must be failing me. I didn't see one mentioned at all.
Anyways, I see some pretty good magic defense there. A Warrior Priest and a Battle Wizard gives 4DD (not to mention several items that can cause all kinds of headaches for you), whilst your 6 PD will just be points sink. Invest in another Lvl2 Wizard or drop back to one imho.
I'd say invest in an Eagle and go Helblaster hunting. Those machines are such one-hit-wonders it isn't funny, and against expensive HE units, an Eagle is handy to have. If he shoots it, he has a chance of misfiring and it's 50pts gone, if he doesn't you should have little difficulty killing off the crew members in combat.
Dragon Princes are also evil. Give them a Hero with the Biting Blade and they should be well and truly a match for the Knights. Once they're dead, the infantry become fair game.
Take a unit of archers to bring down that detachment, those things will cause all manner of pain, and then the ability to soften up the Halberdiers will be simply invaluable (or just RBT the Detachment).
With the detachment dead, the Halberdiers have very little chance of matching your Spearmen.
The Preist has very little offensive magic. It's mostly all support. I would suggest putting in just enough magic defense to keep his Wizard off your back. Also, there's no need to take a true general, or a BSB. In every case, your basic unit champions are better than his characters. This doesn't mean "challenge all the time" but rather, "don't worry too much about it". I would look into some eagles though. RBTs are well and good, but 2 eagles will totally shut down his artillery. The crews are weak, T3 no armor, no weapons- not like sturdy dwarves.
My tactic would be to shut off his guns, shut out his magic, and then force him to come to grips with you on a mano-e-elfo level. In that situation, you should have no troubles utterly demolishing him.
Take swordmasters for his knights and spearmen for his infantry. An eagle or two to both burn up deployment so you can pair up units against what they're good at killing and to apply pressure on his artillery. Hero choices could be just about anything.
Cheers for the tips so far. Still haven't won yet however :p
Swordmasters are excellent once in combat (even with half the squad gone), the tricky part is getting into combat in the first place, as he'll generally not move much other than his knights on one flank.
He now takes 2 wizards (in 2000pts), with alot of dispell scrolls, and i'm having appauling luck with both casting and dispelling at the moment, so none of my high magic missiles or lore of metal trickery is getting through, his spells do a number on me however.
Hellblaster is killing half a unit a turn, averaging at 20 shots each shooting phase. Its not a one trick pony when he's got an engineer with them. Even when it does misfire more often than not 2 barrels will still shoot.
I can't for the life of me get shadow warriors to perform, as the 10" exclusion zone means I can never get them anywhere close to the enemy.
I think next i'll try sitting back myself and outranging him with archers and bolt throwers aiming at crewmen, with the swordmasters and spearmen to counter approaching knights.
Perhaps then 3 level 2 mages, some cavalry and a noble to counter with?
Reading through most of what is written the point I can't stress enough is that you need to get into those warmachines fast. Shadow Warriors and an eagle head towards the Hellblaster (Both units have to move towards it while a unit of spears or Phoenix gaurd look menacing in range) He can't kill both units in a turn unless he is really lucky, one will die but the other will take out the gun.
If you aren't going to play anything fast (Eagles, Shadow Warriors or Ellyrian Reavers) then run a lot of smallish units so that you deploy after his warmachines and try and take them out of the game with deployment.
When I play dwarves (2000 pts) I take a minimum of 2 eagles (either 2 rares or 1 rare and a noble on an eagle) and a unit of shadow warriors, without that speed I know that I will get torn apart on the way in, I guess you need to work something similar out.
You could try using a dogs of war cannon instead of a bolt thrower (save on 15 points as well) and see if you can take out the hellblaster with that.
Hellblaster do only have the 24" range so you can start with only a group of ellyrions in range and then move them back out of range straight away.#
Does he put the battle mages in units or does he leave them on their own? Ellyrions and shadow warriors should easily sort out singuar battle mages if they don't get blown up. If you use terrain use that to you're advantage, if you don't try hiding some stuff behind you're Pheonix guard.
. "Stop complaining ponce and hit stuff with yer shiny new axe"