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I was wondering if anyone has any tricks they like to use against VCs....it seems that I have tried everything I can think of and I still get massacred every single time I face them.
I have tried several strats against them, from heavy magic, to hammer and anvil units. I've effectively been able to shut down their magic phase, but still can't do enough damage to kill not even one vampire. I've been told SMs are great against them, which I have tried loading up on, but even when I go after skellies for some reason they just cant inflict enough damage to make them crumble entirely.
Any advice is welcome because one of my good friends who I play against plays VCs and he knows how frustrated I am getting trying to at least have a competitive game against his VCs. I don't even care about winning at this point haha, Id just like to not get massacered every time.
Drain Magic is critical as it will make it harder to revive their fallen models. They will most likely win in combat resolution due to their sheer numbers.
I have had similar troubles with the new VC and only just last week managed to beat them, and won with a resounding massacre.
It will help a lot of you post the general VC list you are facing, since they all require different tactics to beat.
Want to kill the general and his unit? Take a unit of swordmasters with the lion banner and gem of courage, then take a prince on moon/star dragon with the null stone. Move the dragon up behind the SM until the SM are in charge range of the unit, then charge with them while at the same time moving the dragon behind the unit making sure to put him within 6" of the general but not within 6" of the swordmasters (or they will lose immune to fear). Ignore the vamp, target your unit champ on his, the rest just hit the unit, which should leave only the vamp to figh back and you win combat. Next turn, charge in with the dragon to the rear and you should crumble the entire unit including general.
Granted, that is tailoring your army to beat them and I would generally not recommend it, but it will win the game.
In general, with other lists, a dragon prince unit with amulet of light is great for whacking wraiths. You will need a very strong magic defence to shut down their magic. If you are shutting down their magic and still not winning, you need to focus more power on each unit. Don't charge unless you can win combat and have other units prepared for a flank charge. There is little that can quickly beat a full unit of undead in the High Elf army on their own, you definitely need to outmanouvre and flank him.
I haven't found an easy way to kill the Varghulf yet, that thing is very very tough.
It's usually a different list, but one unit that is consistant in his list is a large unit of grave guard and his lord will be in there with the battle standard with the regen banner. He never takes a vargulf, but lots of bats lately, which are good to hold up my units and for sure will go after my swordmasters or DPs if he sees them going after his main unit.
I was actually able to get a unit of DPs with Tyrion and the Battle Banner in with him last time I played, but with horrible results as I lost combat terribly and the fled and were killed. I don't know the name of the weapon that he was using, but it auto hit which was nasty since against HEs a lord will generally be wounding on 2s. I was thinking of taking a dragon again as they don't have any ranged attacks to pick it off besides the scream, which of course the dragon wont go near.
Also last time I played him I successfully shut down 2 of his magic phases with 2 mages before he killed my tyrion unit in one round of combat I'm pretty much sure thats the last time I ever take the battle banner because as soon as anyone sees that hes toast.
I don't really care about being cheap, because i find VCs to be the cheapest no strategy army in the game lol.
Thanks for the advice so far, will take it all in consideration.
Yeah the graveguard and lord unit is extremely hard to beat, looks like even moreso if they have the regeneration banner. Thats crazy. You should be able to assassinate the BSB, but that won't help kill the rest of the unit. It is a massive pointsink too. In that case, the swordmasters and dragon should still be able to do it (the banner will be nullified too, but the BSB may survive and get attacks and it will still add to combat res) but if you can deal with his magic it may be better to just try to destroy the rest of the army and ignore that unit. What other core units does he usually use? Skellies and ghouls are both tough, but 6 dragon princes with full command can sometimes deal with them on their own, a chariot added in will definitely do it.
Also, if you are going magic heavy cast flames of the Phoenix on the grave guard then cast drain magic, so it becomes 14+ to dispel for him in his magic phase. Very hard to stop.
i don;t like using special characters, but Tyrion was desigend to take out Vampire Counts....His flaming sword nullifies regeneration, he has a 0+ save, and his attacks are at S7. He is also faster than any VC character, and is capable of taking down Manfred and Vlad.
However, I've found that involving large units of Phoneix Guard in your battle-line is greta- no auto-brakeing, and that 4+ ward save will mean that even Blood Knights can boucne off them, and lose the war of attrition through static combat res...
When you use Tyrion do you put him in a group, or have him out alone. I was going over his stats, and I was thinking that he actually has a better chance for survival if he is on his own and going flank hunting. I've been itching to actually try him since I picked up his model, but unfortunately first time I used him, he failed miserably because I couldn't make an armour save on his group of DPs lol
With ASF you should be able to do some damage to the GG unit, but you best bet would be to target as much firepower and Lore of Fire spells at the unit. You could also just avoid the unit altogether, take out the rest of the army (especially the other vamps/necros) and then charge the GG with multiple units at once. If you charge with multiple units, get a flank or rear bonus, actually have multiple ranks, a standard or two, and focus your attacks on something you can wound, make sure your total numbers are greater than his, you should definitely win the combat through resolution alone.
You may want to carefully watch your opponent's list next time, he may also be cheating if he isn't playing a Mounted Lord and BSB in the GG unit.
To be honest the auto-hit lance is also a flaming weapon I recall, so it won;t actually harm your Dragon princes and Tyrion at all as they have Dragon Armour which is immune to any flaming attacks....
The auto hit lance is not a flaming weapon.
The grave guard unit is tricky to deal with but not impossible. You will need a combination of chargers, preferably swordmasters with the lion standard, and perhaps a lion chariot. The key to it is to kill the regenerate banner - maybe take the ring of vauls unmaking?
Pheonix guard are a reasonable choice, however against hand weapon GG you will struggle to damage them due to high T and good armour saves, so they might be stuck in a war of attrition.
I dont think dragon princes are a good choice. On the charge you get perhaps 13 attacks that hit on 3's and wound on 3's. GG get a 5+ save followed by a 4+ regenerate. Overall you might do 3-4 wounds. The GG get a BSB back and a vampire lord, plus the three ranks, standard, battle standard and outnumber. Next round of combat you wound him on 5's.
You're best bet is to vauls unmaking the regenerate, and cast drain magic, then concentrate all your firepower on the unit followed by shutting down his magic and then do it again. That should wittle them down to the point where you can stamp them with your swordmasters.
You could also try using the lore of metal on the grave guard. If they have hand weapon and shield then its 2d6 s5 hits with no save or regenerate.
You need to stop his ION and regen saves in short.
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