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Hi all. I've never played against Dwarves with my HE army. I'll get my first chance coming up soon in a game with 1250 point armies.
How do you beat Dwarves? It seems obvious that WL are a must. Bolt Throwers as well since the Dwarves are tough and have good armour. Magic seems like a really expensive option for an army that will likely not be affected by it anyway.
The one clear cut advantage for the Elves it speed. Speed of infantry and speed of cavalry. Any suggestions on how to use this advantage to take down the Dwarves?
With the exception of Thorek, it is very difficult for Dwarves to compete with us now. We are just too fast and they are too slow. I wouldn't write off magic either, it can be useful particularly for supporting your units as they cross the board.
Eagles and Shadow Warriors are also a must, you have to get to his warmachines before they can do you any really serious damage, I find that Flame cannon and Grudge thrower are worst due to our small base sizes. Be warned also that none of the dwarf weapons are flaming (unless given flaming rune), even the flame cannon so DP get no extra protection.
Remember his shooting is incredibly inflexible, as none of his troops can move and shoot (except Gyrocopter), so once you are outside 45 degrees from a unit you can only be targetted by Warmachines.
BAH! elven propoganda. we dwarves are perfectly able to compete with you dress wearing pansies!.With the exception of Thorek, it is very difficult for Dwarves to compete with us now. We are just too fast and they are too slow. I wouldn't write off magic either, it can be useful particularly for supporting your units as they cross the board.
generally speaking you want to avoid protracted combat. dwarves are the MASTERS of the meat grinder battle with large amounts of very tough and well armoured infantry supported by arguably the most reliable shooting in WFB.
the trick is to make sure you fight the dwarves on your terms, with supporting cavalry charges and your best infantry engaging their worst. white lions for example will cause horrendous damage against dwarf warriors, but in the face of longbeards, ironbreakers or hammerers you may find them struggling, particularly if a dwarf character is in the fight. use your mobility to your advantage and attack the flanks with supporting chargers. otherwise you might very well find your self in a head on battle you have no hope of winning.
in addition watch out for dwarven artillery. with the best bolt throwers, cannons and stone throwers in the game backed up by the leathal organ gun dwarven firepower can cause sickening amounts of carnage if not dealt with. the trick is to play for the long battle. avoid fights until you can be assured of winning and focus on looting the artillery.
however... be warned. some dwarf players aren't to accomodating to hangback in their deployment zone and let you rule the table. some dwarf armies (mine for example) are horrendously quick thanks to anvils of doom (regular ones) and movement enhancing runes.
its quite a sight to see a big unit of elite dwarves move 18" turn one
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[16:19] <@Alzer> Arky's right though
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> I know he is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> He usually is.
[16:20] <@Kaiser-> Sometimes it's intentional.
[00:01] <+zubus> i love you, ya skirt wearin nothern monkey! ^_^
Magic shold not be discounted get a mage with seerstaff pick lore of life and get stone master and rain lord for killing warmachines and getting 6s to hit even at short range. Eagles are also a must as are shadow warriors use them to get flank and rear chargeswhich should be easy. If i recal the dwarf handgun are -3 to armour save so pheonix guard would be btter than white lions plus they cause fear which should break even the stubborn troops. I would say wl are still a must though as they should break through armour. Don't try march block it doesn't work I learned that from experiance ( a bad one)
Last edited by goliath; October 20th, 2008 at 20:44. Reason: made mistakes
Daemonic cheese-how? Well, you would need to start with daemonic milk, i guess...
Shadow warriors and Eagle s to just tie-up their war machines (not neccessarily win) and deep blocks of Phoenix Guard, Spears.
Smaller supporting units of Sword masters and White Lions, use cover as much as possible if you can, and also get a few squadrons of fast cavalry to saturate the flanks....
I'm still not convinced magic is worth it against Dwarves. 4 dispell dice? Just to match that, I would need two Lvl-1 mages...which is a lot of points for something that will possibly have no effect whatsoever. I could upgrade one or both mages to Lvl 2 to have an edge, but there is still the fact that it is all up to chance. Having those mages would have to take the place of, say, a couple squads of fast cavalry, or a deep block of heavy infantry. The mages impact on the battle seems so random and uncontrollable to me due to the fact that so much chance is involved.
Also, won't the Dwarves be able to protect their flanks pretty well with their shooting? For example, if on turn 1 I send some calvary marching up the side of the table heading for the flanks, chances are my eagles or SW won't have reached the war machines yet...which will then be able to blast me to pieces. Not to mention, a simple maneuver by the shooting troops (what the heck are they called anyway? I feel like such a noob not knowing what they're called) would be able to fend them off, even if they can't move and shoot on the same turn. Because it will take me more than two turns to get a flank charge: 2 turns to cover the distance and wheel to face the flanks, one more turn to charge. If he repositions his shooters on his first turn to cover his flanks, my flankers are toast before they can charge. Sure they will draw fire away from my main infantry, but what good will the infantry do if they have no flank support?
What have people's experience been shooting the Dwarves? Do bows do anything to them?
Question: If I mount two Nobles on Eagles, can I then still put a couple BTs in my army, or do the Nobles' mounts count as filling my rare slots?
Question: Is it true what goliath said about Dwarves shooting? A -3 to armour save? Is that just a special rule or does it mean that their ballistic weapons have a Strength of 6?
Also what about using chariots for another speed advantage?
Chariots are not actually fast, unless you have invocations to make them double-move. Chariots are slower than HE infantry except on the charge, so are more like "defensive-offense" weapons...
As for the case for magic. 2 level 2 HE mages plus one or two decent making items is going to cost less than 300 points. If you get the appropriate spells, such as Pit of Tarnus/Shades from Grey magic Lore of Shadows. And if a Dwarf Lord comes to the party fully loaded, and he gets Vaul's unmaking against him, or worse, ring of corin (a good item for a mage to carry...) then he will just be a toughness 5 fat bloke with beard....
And if a Dwarf player is not shooting at your combat units he is asking for a serious pasting. Light cavalry are not top of the target list, so aim to ensure that they get round the back of Dwarven shooting. if he pivots the shooters to aim at the light units, that means he can't stand and shoot at the units bearing down from their flank/rear....
Add in spells such as drain magic which make dispelling your spells harder, and you have a great magical offense.
Fact is that against a static Dwarf gunline, it is suicidal to attempt to charge in, unless you have big units of (Expensive) cavalry making those "50/50" charges.
i've had a lot of success against dwarves with phoenix guard with some sorta hero level character in their unit(usually korhil)...just march them straight accross the field at their gunline and use their fear to you're advantage.