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hey guys I really like the new HE and was wondering if anybody knew how to make a good HE defensive list I was definately gonna go with the phoenix guard just looks like theyd be able to hold their own with a 4+ ward. 4 repeater bolt throwers and probably a lvl 4 mage with hoeth. the other 2 characters id probably pick nobles with possibly a bsb and spam drain magic at the end of my magic phase?
You would need a couple of spolier units, such as shadwo warriors or reavers, if you want the Bolt Throwsers to work hard, because then you can prevent march moves, and skewer more of the enemy than you normally would.
Arguably, White Lions are better defensive infantry in many situations, as unless PG win a combat, then they could be losing it on an Ld of 7 or less, whereas White Lions are at least Stubborn.
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yeah for my defensive list I have a lvl4 and 2 lvl2 mages shadow warriors white lions and all my bolt throwers sadly I only have 3
Daemonic cheese-how? Well, you would need to start with daemonic milk, i guess...
I agree about the white lions but in my Defensive list I use Swordmasters.
I figure that with the bolt throwers archers and magic whittling down the ranks there are almost no units that 7 swordmasters won't beat.
If he can afford to part with one RBT he can take a Eagle and march block also. I think eagles are easier at that. HE spearmen make pretty good pincushions. 15 attacks that ASF will make even heavy infantry that doesn't have ASF think twice before charging. Theoretically they could be wiped out by 15 attacks even if they are at S 3. Phoenix guard are indeed a good defensive unit. They are often used to tie up other heavy/eilite infantry while another unit usually Calvary slams into the enemy flank or rear
If a Million Guardsmen die, that's a statistic. If one marine dies, that's a tragedy.
The trouble with using SMs as a defensive army, is the fact that the enemy can still manage to shoot them into the ground before closing with you. The RBTs are absolutely going to force the enemy towards you, as will the magic, but they may get a few good turns in while they do.
The typical "defense method", is to run a large block of PGs as a 'center'. They tend to get a BSB within their ranks. Then they get WLs on their flanks. Behind that you have your RBTs, Archers, and your Mages. Typically, 10-11 archers for each mage on foot. Then, if you have the points left, you flesh out the army with either Spearmen (to put more bodies on the ground) or cavalry/chariots for extra weight on the flanks.
well im trying to start it off slow so i made a 1000 point list to see if I got the right idea with this "strategy". I really love the spearmen.
ring of fury
mage (goes with spearmen)
gem of courage
21 spearmen (deploying 6 wide maybe?)
11 archers (other wizard goes here)
2 bolt throwers
5 shadow warriors
i think thats about 1000 even. Its a rough draft but I figured this would be a good idea to start off with then when i decide to get to 2k ill argue with myself in picking 1 of the 3 "specials" to put in. Im still trying to figure out if thats a pretty good setup for my mages I wish i could fit the jewel and wand on 1 mage but i dont want to cheat lol. The shadow warriors are their to march block and hopefully get the bolters to fire an extra round or 2 before they get too close. Im a little worried about only having 1 block it feels sorta barren. For the points I just think the spearmen are awesome if I had my way I would put them in every game as my "cushin" block. Like hasula said 15 asf attacks is just sexy. But unfortunately when you get to 2k their are ALOT better options. Anyways if you guys wouldnt mind maybe helpin me out making a descently good "defensive" list at 1k?
Last edited by sanity_is_weak; November 2nd, 2008 at 05:27.
You are right though that it is not your typical approach, however here is my justification
Phoenix Gaurd need to be at least 15+ command to be effective (and may not win the combat), that covers your 2 units of SM in points but the SM are in 2 places at once and I think are more likely to win their combats. To keep them alive, you know that you have range, 30" is long, deploy SM behind archers and for the majority of the game you are safe from shooting due to range and Line of Sight. Just make sure you get the warmachines on the hills quick smart (right after fast cavalry), and deploy using a refused flank using our great movement to contest table quarters in the last couple of turns.
I would like to add, if I could...
1. Alith Anar, to go with your shadow warriors. Now, if you are not into "special characters", a Prince with the Bow of the Seafarer/Shadow Armor.
2. A Noble with the Reaver Bow, and mounted. Maybe a great eagle or steed?
3. Maybe a mage which casts Lore of Beasts spells. The spell, The Hunter's Spear, works like a single bolt from a bolt thrower. As does Alith Anar's moonbow, and the Bow of the Seafarer.
4. Any Lore, which can "cripple" your opponent, would work well for a "defensive" themed army. Lore of Beasts against opponents which bring lots of critters ( including steeds ). Lore of Metal against opponents which bring along lots of guns/cannons/heavy calv. The Lore of Life works well against opponents a) which are considered "horde", b) which tend to have lots of "swarms", c) which tend to have lots of archers/crossbowmwn, d) which tend to hide behind walls or other "rock" formations.
I hope you gain some good info from this