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So I haven't played WFB since 5th ed, and I'm a little out of the loop. I asked for some advice in the general army forum and it's lead me to think the HE might be the way for me to go.
I like a shooty army, one that can rule the magic phase, but has enough a few fast, hard units to mop up whatever survives the other two phases. I'll be playing primarily DE and Orks armies, and possibly WoC as well.
My other goal is being able to assemble a 2k point army that isn't 200 figures. It's not a money thing, it's a time thing. I've got a 3 year child old in the house and another one due in July so painting/modeling time will be very tight.
Does HE sound like a good army for me? I was thinking of a fair number of RBTs, archers or other core units with ranged attacks, and then units of cavalry for melee.
Should I start with the Batallion or Army box given this goal?
I would not buy the battalion box, To save time and money I would shop on ebay for already modeled units (considering your limitations) this will save you time and money ^^ HE are a great army and it should work very well for what you want! ^^ I have some extra archers if your interested in purchasing, PM me = )
-1st Army-High Elves 81/11/9
-Second Army-Lizardmen 6/0/0
Agreed, do not buy the batallion box, but two boxes of spearmen instead and assemble them as seaguard. This will let you have a shooting core as well as good melee. You mentioned RBT's, those are mandatory, and a couple of mages to get you started.
HE is a great army to do if you like the things you mentioned, and I hope you'll have fun. Feel free to PM me for any advice.
5000p. High Elves
High Elves certainly have the potential to rule the magic phase and have fast hard hitting units, but the shooting isn't quite as good. Still, I think they fit what you want fairly well.
The Shooting options you have are archers, Lothern Sea Guard and RBTs. Shadow Warriors can also provide some supporting fire. Other units like Tiranoc Chariots and Reavers also carry bows, but really that's a small number of shots, so the really the archers and RBTs will provide most of High Elf shooting. The problem is that they are generally a bit overpriced for what they do, essentially paying through the nose for the elf statline, which doesn't really have a great effect in ranged combat aside from the BS value.
The RBTs are the best shooting option here, as they can cause a lot of damage and have versatility due to the volley shooting mode. The archers are rather overpriced just for a longbow shot compared to other races archers, but they are useful for filling out a core shot relatively cheaply, and are useful for knocking rank bonuses off enemy units. Sea Guard suffer from the problem of trying to be two things at once (spearmen and archers) and therefore not doing either particularly well. If you form them up for maximum shooting, they are rubbish in combat, if you form them up in a block they only get a few bow shots. Some people find them useful though.
Magic is good, not as good as some races and I'd say not as good as it should be compared to the fluff, but High Elves do have the potential to dominate a magic phase, and also to shut down the opponent's magic phase with the drain magic spell. You'll probably like the spell Curse of Arrow Attraction in the High Magic lore, as it makes your shooting more accurate.
As for the fast, hard units, Dragon Princes fit in well there. They seem to be virtually mandatory in most HE armies these days. The elite infantry choices (Swordmasters, White Lions and Phoenix Guard) are also pretty effective even though they're not that fast.
The Battalion can be a decent choice depending on which of the units you're planning to use. Based on what you say you want in an army, it sounds as though you'll find the archers and RBT useful, so it depends on whether you want the spearmen and Silver Helms. Silver Helms aren't really worth taking compared to Dragon Princes, so if you were to buy the Battalion, I'd consider converting them into DPs.
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Good advice all, and thanks.
I will admit that HE is still not a final choice, I am looking at WE and TK as well. I like to play something different, and I tend to see a lot of HE players wherever you go. The other kicker is that I will be playing DE regularly, and suddenly winning combats doesn't matter due to the DE hatred rules. It seems like it would take a lot of the tactics out of the game. These are friendly games though, the DE player might be willing to skip the rule.
So, having read my first post again, I'll take the opinions of HE players on my army selection. Is HE what I want, or do TK or DE fit the bill better? Or is there another army I'm overlooking?
I think that you have an old version of hatred in mind. Dark Elves will still break from combat. They are just considerably more reliable as they get to re-roll to hit against us but must pursue or over-run.
As to your Choice of HE, I think that it is great. It does seem to fit all your criteria, Wood Elves and Dark Elves would also fit in nicely, not as familiar with Tomb Kings though.
Right, just did some more reading. They get to re-roll misses against HEs. Is that all attacks, or melee only? HEs get to reroll failed psych tests in return...
Hmm, I think they get the better of those two!
---------- Post added at 22:16 ---------- Previous post was at 21:38 ----------
Okay, assuming I see a lot of DE and Orks and Gobbos, here is a quick and dirty 1000pt army for review, assuming a magic and shooty flavour:
Silver Wand, Ring of Fury
10 Archers, Musician
10 Archers, Musician
10 Swordmasters, Full Command
Sword of Might, Enchanted Shield
Banner of Ellyrion
5 Dragon Princes, Musician
RBT x 2
That's 995 pts. Basic strategy, sit back and let the reaper volleys whittle down fast moving enemy units first. Archers engage anything close. The dragon princes in reserve, and the Swordmasters take advantage of the banner, and slink around in difficult terrain. Hope the mage can dominate the magic phase.
My biggest concern will be opposing bolt throwers against the DEs and the Orks bring a Giant to pretty much every game...
Well that is quite a nice list to begin with. I do have my reservations about it's effectiveness, but they are mainly because of my jaded experience with certain units in the past. Here is my advice about the list:
1) Drop the magical items on the Swordmaster champion. It is not worth armouring him up like that. If you wanted to achieve a simular thing, I would have given him the armour of caledor, but again, this isn't worth it for a champion.
2) Drop the command and banner for the swordmasters. It isn't required for games this small. Infact, if the unit loses, you could be handing your enemies vital victory points.
3) Drop one of the units of archers, then with the spare points you have gained, get yourself a unit of 18 Spearmen with Full Command. This unit will give you a good solid anvil, which you can use your swordmasters, or Dragon Princes to flank with.
I hope this helps. For further advice, I would post an army list in the army list section. You are likely to get more advice there.
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Well thanks for the advice everyone. I slept on this, and I decided to go with... Tomb Kings.
Knowing that I was going to see DE every 2nd or 3rd game, I just can't bring myself to hand a foe rerolls on all misses that often
Thank to everyone that posted here though. Maybe HE will be second army in a year or so!
You do know that Dark Elves Hate everyone anyways right? They will get thier re-rolls friend... (Its just that they hate us most >_<)
-1st Army-High Elves 81/11/9
-Second Army-Lizardmen 6/0/0