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  1. #1
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    Starting a Tourney...

    Alright so I am starting a 1500 point tourney with some friends soon. Here are the teams involved and what the people like to take:
    Dark Elfs (3 sorceresses and a hydra, dont know about rest)
    Empire (I think he is going with two blocks of infantry (swordsmen and greatswords) and the rest calvary)
    Wood Elfs (2 nobles one mage, some warhawks, and wardancers)
    Tomb Kings (no idea never played him)
    Warriors of Chaos (no idea never played him)

    Just curious on what you would take here is what I was thinking. This is not a tourney about friendship its a straight up bring a nasty list cause I want to rub it in your face. which is how it should be.

    Heroes

    Dragon Mage
    Lvl 2
    Armour of Caledor
    Silver Wand

    Core

    10x Archers

    Special

    15x Sword Masters of Hoeth
    FC
    Banner of Arcane Protection

    15x Pheonix Guard
    FC

    Lion Chariot of Chrace

    5x Dragon Princes of Caledor
    FC

    Rare

    Repeater Bolt Throwers

    Please help me this is a tree and hill heavy map so I am not sold on the bolt thrower.
    I could get rid of the bolt thrower for a noble. Just wondering what all of your thoughts are! Thanks.

    Armies: 40k: Imperial Guard, Orks Fantasy: Skaven

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  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HAB_Incognito View Post
    Just curious on what you would take here is what I was thinking. This is not a tourney about friendship its a straight up bring a nasty list cause I want to rub it in your face. which is how it should be.

    Heroes

    Dragon Mage
    Lvl 2
    Armour of Caledor
    Silver Wand
    This guy is chewing up your points. He doesn't really provide enough magic to make a powerful phase (he only knows 3 spells, and generates 4 dice. That's 2spells on 2 dice, and 1 spell on 3 dice. He also makes for 100free VPs because he doesn't have any armor. Sadly, these guys are awesome models but bad choices. I'd swap him out for 2 mages, and some more points to spend elsewhere.

    Core

    10x Archers
    This is exactly what I do- taking minimal core. However, you don't have many points to spare here, so you should look to take a nice, hefty Anvil unit of cheap spearmen or something. 20 of them would do the trick, just to tie up the enemy for a turn or two so that you can bring your specials into the fight. Use the points freed up from that DMage perhaps?

    Special

    15x Sword Masters of Hoeth
    FC
    Banner of Arcane Protection
    Your swordmasters aren't the guys to give a banner to. They only have a 5+ modifiable save, so they're not too survivable. However, they ARE the bane of anything that wears armor and likes to charge (your friend's Empire cavalry for example). Most people field units like this in regiments of 7-10, naked. They're cheaper that way, and you can maximize your attacks while also spreading your enemy's shooting among several units. If 30 handgunners shoot at your unit of 15, they might kill it. But if you have 3 units of 5, the most those gunners will ever do is take out 5 swordmasters.


    15x Pheonix Guard
    FC
    These guys make a great anvil. They're nice and hard, with a 4+ wardsave that never goes away. However, they can't rock out much damage, so they'll need to be babysat by another regiment that CAN bring the hurt. Tying up an enemy with this unit, then flanking it with a small regiment of Swordmasters is a common tactic. I would put your magic banner here. Rather than Arcane Protection though, I would go with the Banner of Sorcery, to give you another D3 Powerdice. This unit will find itself targeted by magic, and spending points on the banner seems good, but the enemy will just target another regiment- like your Knights. Protecting 1 regiment in the whole army is wasteful: no regiment can win singlehandedly, so it's better to spend those points on something that benefits the entire force, like more troops or a stronger magic phase.


    Lion Chariot of Chrace
    I really dislike the Kitty Kart. They're too expensive, points wise, and they are too aggressive to be in an elf list. They don't march, so they can't really support our fast moving cavalry, and we are a stationary army otherwise. They'll spend too long sitting across the board, soaking up cannonballs and other attacks that will just wreck this glass-cannon of a unit. If you like chariots, try to spread the points out and get 2 Tirannoc chariots. These cost almost the same, and statistically are much better than a single LCC. They have more wounds, more attacks, and they can split their attack or work in tandem. In small armies, I tend more towards keeping a lot of bodies on the ground, so I'd use these points to buy more infantry or swap this unit for a second regiment of Dragon Princes so that the two units can go off on a flank and be more offensive in their role.

    5x Dragon Princes of Caledor
    FC
    This is a good regiment, and pretty hard hitting. Of all the armies that you listed, the only ones who will have a regiment that can take this unit, will be Warriors. Remember that you want to keep these guys close to your army- don't range too far ahead of the force with them. Really, with ASF, we don't need an anti-cavalry unit, so you could drop these guys in favor of 10 more Special Infantry. That could be used to get your PGs up to 20 models (extra rank bonus), and spread the excess across the army.

    Rare

    Repeater Bolt Throwers
    As this is plural, I'm guessing that you mean to use two of these. Good call- they're devastating.

    Please help me this is a tree and hill heavy map so I am not sold on the bolt thrower.
    I could get rid of the bolt thrower for a noble. Just wondering what all of your thoughts are! Thanks.
    Dropping that DMage will get you points for a noble if you're really set on one. I'd go with a really cheap BSB, with the Armor of Caledor and a Great Weapon, on foot, in the Phoenix Guard. That's if you take a noble at all.
    I would keep your RBTs. Even on a hilly, tree-covered map, they can be helpful. There will always be a good firing-line somewhere, and with their multi-shot ability, they're still good at tossing up some suppression-fire at close range.
    The list isn't bad, I'm guessing that you've recently started in on the High Elves. They're a great army and they aren't as 'unforgiving' as people say they are. Your list put together several of the most statistically-superior units in the book, but the downfall of the elves is that we are all over-priced. We're forced to make each of our units work together, rather than on their own. You fell into the trap of making a very small army, that will be overwhelmed with numbers.

    I'd be wary of this "hill-and-wood heavy terrain". There is an Imperial player, and a WoodElf present in this tournament, and they like their hills and woods, respectively. I'd argue the point- in a fair game of Warhammer there are just 4-6 pieces of terrain on a 4x6 table. I've played tons of tournament games, and almost all of them featured 4 pieces of terrain on a 4x6 table. Also, no terrain may be placed within 1' of the center of the board (page2 of the rulebook).
    Last edited by CaptainSarathai; September 22nd, 2009 at 02:32.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

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  4. #3
    Senior Member Allonairre's Avatar
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    Wow the Captain deserves some rep there, he has given you a pretty good break down on your list and its strengths and weaknesses.

    I would just add to that that 3 mages for DE is going to be hard to cope with at the best of times, and most of their spells don't need line of sight or they have their little spell familiar.

    Surprised you didn't go with White Lions given the statement about terrain but that is up to you.

    Personally I agree about the Dragon Mage and think that probably the best we can do for nobles in low points is:
    Noble on eagle with Reaver Bow (Hunter extraordinaire, but probably controversial and he is your general which is a bit dicey)

    Mounted BSB with Battle Banner (Fantastic esp with Phoenix Gaurd or Dragon Princes)

    Scroll or crystal caddy, Crystal is particularly good at low points as it severely limits each mages casting flexibility.

    This does leave you very exposed magically though and with very little magic of your own, also 2 or 3 mages would work.

    Other than that I think that Captain Sarathai has it pretty spot on.
    Cheers Allonairre

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  5. #4
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    Thanks!

    Thanks a lot for the advice so far...so here is another list modified of course

    Heroes

    Mage
    Lvl 2
    Jewel of Dusk

    Mage
    Lvl 2
    Annulian Crystal

    Core

    20x Spearmen
    FC

    Special

    8x Sword Masters of Hoeth
    FC

    8x Sword Masters of Hoeth
    FC

    15x Phoenix Guard
    FC
    Banner of Sorcery

    15x White Lions
    FC

    Rare

    Repeater Bolt Thrower

    Or should I drop the White Lions for another Repeater Bolt Thrower and a naked unit of 5x Dragon Princes? Please comment like before extremely helpful!

    Also how do you rep?

    Alright thought of something else, should I just drop the SwordMasters all together or run them naked? I could keep the White Lions and add the aformentiond Bolt Thrower and naked unit of Dragon Princes. If I do remove the SM would that be taking to much away from armies power? Just wanting ideas
    Last edited by HAB_Incognito; September 22nd, 2009 at 05:33.
    Armies: 40k: Imperial Guard, Orks Fantasy: Skaven

  6. #5
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    I'm not going to break it down the same way that I replied to the last one- I like this second list a lot more. Moving into the MultipleSmallUnit Swordmasters was a step in the right direction.
    To answer your question about running in a regiment of naked Dragon Princes, here are my thoughts on that:

    1) you are running your SMs in units of 8. Why eight? 7 is about as many as you can reliably bring into base-base with an enemy regiment. Although 8 is nasty, it's a little excessive. Remember- you can't get ranks unless they're 5 wide.

    2) you have a great big unit of White Lions now. Once again, this is a player-option, but they typically serve 2 roles. They're either MSU flankers like your Swordmasters, or they're a tough anvil like the PGs. Either one works great, since they are a little more resilient to shooting than the Swordmasters and they can move through the woodlands to get the flanks, but they're also tough enough to hold a line like the PGs and have the advantage of doing a bit more damage.
    With your regiment of Spears, regiment of PGs, and your new WLs, you effectively have 3 anvils, and 2 flankers. If you wanted to, you could drop either the WLs or PGs, or break the WLs down into small regiments to replace your Swordmasters.

    3) you want to keep the RBT. You have no long-range combat now except for your magic phase, which can be admittedly fickle. As an infantry army, the Elves need something to force the enemy to break cover and move towards you, or a means by which to cover the elven advance.

    That being said, this is what I personally would do with the list:

    1) drop either the Phoenix Guard or the White Lions. Whoever stays gets the Banner of Sorcery and keeps their full command.
    This buys you 8 Dragon Princes.

    2) drop each of the SwordMaster units to 6 strong. This buys you 2 more Dragon Princes for a total of 10. Drop the commands on all the Swordmaster regiments, you won't need them. Atleast drop the Standard Bearer (100pts if the banner is captured, and as flankers they'll benefit from the banner in the anvil regiment) and the musician (likewise, they benefit from the musician in the anvil).

    3) purchase 2 naked regiments of 5 Dragon Princes. With the extra points earned from dropping the command elements in your Swordmasters, try to give your DPs standard bearers.

    Now your list has a total of 7 full regiments, two of which can stand toe-to-toe with an enemy, while the MSU-infantry works on their flanks. Your DragonPrinces can be deployed to work as either close-support to the infantry, helping to break stubborn combats, or they can be deployed together opposite the opponent's weak flank to take the fight to him.

    Remember to keep your mages inside the anvil regiments to protect them from shooting and magic. On the turn before combat, leave the units to stand in a place where you can't be charged (usually right between both Anvils)

    I don't need rep for these posts- I've been playing High Elves for the past decade and I don't mind helping new players. If you want to rep Allonaire though for giving you suggestions with the Darkevles, and with specific equipment loadouts, then the the little symbol at the bottom of each post will give someone rep.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  7. #6
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    Thanks!

    Alright two more questions.

    1) Best way to deal with a Hydra? (If I don't have a Bolt Thrower)


    2) If your playing WoC is an all Swordmasters list with one group of 10 archers and 2 RBT's good? I figure so because they have no range just curious as I will be playing a 1v1 vs one soon. Thanks.
    Armies: 40k: Imperial Guard, Orks Fantasy: Skaven

  8. #7
    Senior Member Allonairre's Avatar
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    Question 1)

    Hydra is probably easiest to deal with through shooting early with RBT's but a mage with Flaming spells, Lore of Fire or light base spells is quite effective, as it loses its regeneration.

    Personally I find that you have to do a couple of wounds to them early to lower the strength of its breath weapon, after that any of the elites do ok but make sure your frontage is 6 or more so you can kill the handlers, they have 6 attacks with armour piercing and that can hurt our 5+ save badly.

    Question 2)

    It seems like it would work fine, but I don't really know I haven't tried it and don't play Warriors of Chaos that much.
    Cheers Allonairre

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  9. #8
    Senior Member WinnipegDragon's Avatar
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    If you can manage it, Pit of Shades is a great Hydra killer too!

  10. #9
    Member 128th_king's Avatar
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    if you want to seriously hurt WOC the first thing you need is an Eagle Claw or two, second thing is a mage since Nurgle is a popular mark and that should help you get either the rule of burning iron for hammering their leaders or the Curse of Arrow Attraction. a unit of shadow warriors or a great eagle is fantastic for march blocking and that means you have more time to hammer him with range. also it is near impossible to beat him in cc unless it is a marauder army, our ASF is perfect when combined with white lions which will allow you to all but negate their armour save from S6
    To Sleep Tzeentch shall come for us all in the end.
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