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My brother and I are taking part in a local doubles tournament, as are a few friends of mine. They are VC players and I know for fact one will be taking a Manfred in his army. Does anyone have any effective tactics to deal with him? I've been thinking of taking an archmage as my Lord choice mainly for the dispell dice but are there any items people can recommend? Or is it best to pick a different Lord? Thanks in advance.
Assuming you're speaking of the Lord choice, right?
I'd say you have to rely heavily on either magic defence or taking him down as quickly as possible. How?
Fight fire with fire. He takes a special character whose magical powers are quite powerful, do the same. Teclis will have more than enough dispel power to stop Mannfred ALONE, and combined with another mage with the Annulian Crystal and some MR spread across the rest of your army, his magic powers should prove ineffective. At least compared to what power you can bolster.
Another possibility is to make use of an Archmage with the Vortex Shard, though it's a huge investment in points and you have to make sure to use it at the right time. Other than that, stock up with MR and Dispel Scrolls.
Drain Magic is your friend!
How to take him down can prove difficult as he will most likely be bunkered in a unit of Grave Guard. A Lord on Star Dragon would off course be best, though if the player has any experience at all, he'll challenge you with a Champion and resurrect him each turn. And if he doesn't, your expensive Lord will most likely will be lost anyway.
This task will off course be easier if he's placed in a Cavalry unit or on his own, but this is highly unlikely.
A mix of the two tactics above could prove useful, as shutting down his magic phase will stop Mannfred from regaining wounds making him far easier to kill. Remember that even though he is a Vampire Lord, he is vulnerable compared to other Vampires with a low AS.
Whichever method you choose, remember that he (most likely) will be the General and his death spells defeat for his army, so good luck and have a fantastic tourny!
5000p. High Elves
Thank you very much for you reply.
Yes it will be the Lord choice, forgot there was a hero version as well. Teclis has been on my mind to counter his mannfred but was worried about him getting picked off easily. I guess putting him in a large block of pheonix guard will protect him well enough. Thanks again!
If I recall correctly, VC have no real ranged power, except some magic that you will be able to counter. The real threat lies in any vampire with the flying ability or knights. (Especially Blood Keep)
Considering Teclis will be the main dispel source, I don't think your opponent will think twice before sending a Vampire to it's doom to take out teclis, and seeing that no shooting will be present, I would think Swordmasters to be more effective as a bodyguard. Always challenge with your champion if he's got a character in there in base contact with Teclis.
Good luck and thanks for the rep!
5000p. High Elves
Manfred is only nasty because he can take 2 arcane items and has so many wounds...and against a bunkered mage-heavy High Elf army even a flying vampire requires a lot of investment to take out Teclis.
A fully ranked-up unit of Spear with banner and Champion might prove to be an effective deterrent as well - ASF attacks if he doesn't challenge and a huge combat resolution, and you can always issue a challenge with your sacrificial champion, but STILL win combat due to outnumbering, ranks, standard etc
Teclis can then scarper and get to a relatively safe unit.
I would take Light magic with Teclis to get cleansing flare or pha's illumination. An alternative is Shadows to get Pit of Shades - which WILL wipe out lareg portions of his ridiculpusly low Initiative army - and steed of shadows to sling-shot around the battlefield. Crown of Taidron isn't to bad either...
Wioth teclis and another level 2 mage in the army, I would opt for a BSB with AoCaledor, Guardian Phoenix and Great Weapon, and put him as a body-guard to Teclis. Take some heavy units such as Dragon Princes with Lion Standard, or Standard of Balance to get rid of any Frenzy on e.g. Blood Knights.
Phoenix Guard are a must, as they will not run when outnumbered, but Swordmasters are also useful at taking out the smaller enemy units somewhere along the line, or taking out enemy heavy cavalry and even Vampires with S6 great weapons. White Lions should only be fielded if you kno he is fielding small units like Wraiths or Varghulfs - they will generally win combats against these smaller units if appropriately equipped (e.g. talisman of light)
Bolt Throwers are useful, but Eagles are better as you can disrupt, lead chargers away from his battle-line and even take a few wounds off Vampires and Necromancers as they cannot be challenged.
Prince - Barded Elven Steed, Lance, Dragon Armour, Shield, Null Stone.
Send im in and smash the silly little vampire to bits.
(Incidentally, I believe that it is Mannfred's magic armour that gives him additionnal wounds. If this is the case then what happens if he is on one would left and the Null Stone goes near him?)
Current painting project: 2300 pts of Dwarfs in 5 weeks.
Again all great pointers you guys rock. The thing about this tournament is the armies need to be 1500 each, so doubled up you have 3000. The rules of the tournament state that each player must take 1 hero and 2 core (unless you are a High Elf, in which case you take 1) than you share the special and rare choices (HE get extra one of each) with your partner. Which really limits the amount of units I can field if I have teclis in the army. My partner (brother) is fielding an annoying Wood Elf army which has plenty of march blocking ability using scouts (with annoying 12" MB banner) and waywatchers. He has given me the Lord choice and 3 of the 4 rare choices.
My bro has taken a spellsinger for the added tree singing threat on the board and extra dispel dice, and with all the wizards we have I have calculated that we will almost always have just as much DD as the enemy has power dice. Maybe removing the lv2 mage in favour of a noble to guard teclis is best.
Sorry I just need to clarify here because all of the advice has been given based on Lords,
Both armies can take Lords (2 lord choices at 3000 pts)
Neither army can take lords (0 lords at 1500 points)
(just reread the post above my bad) One Lord Choice it is.
I think that all the advice above is good, but remember it is a tournament and tayloring a list to deal with Manfredd will unbalance your list against other threats.
You need to deicde on a list that you want to play with and figure out tactics to deal with each of the different kinds of threats you will face.
I think that you can sum them up (broadly) as
Magic Heavy (Vampires, Demons, Teclis or Dark Elves)
Combat Heavy (Fast Vampires or Ring of Hotek Dark Elves)
Gunline (Thorek Dwarves or Arch Lector Empire)
Movement focused (Woodelves)
If you can have some idea how these different play styles will affect your games, you will know what to expect, sometimes a draw is a good result, but you need to have an idea in your head of how you are best going to play your lists for that best result. If you draw against Manfredd and win every other game you will do very well, if you massacre Manfredd but draw against everyone else that isn't so good.
I suggest that you post the list that you want to use and work out how you are going to play the numerous potentially crippling armies with it. I don't think that there is an "unbeatable" HE army to take to a tournament so what you like and enjoy playing with is key.
Had a practice match against my friends last night (Vampire Counts & Lizardmen) and WOW. My brother suffered nothing but bad luck the entire game and losing majority of his army but Teclis with Light Magic and a lv2 with High Magic proved to be too much for them. Teclis' dispel dice alone was shutting down the magic phase (thanks to drain magic) and he was absolutely destroying anything undead.
We ended the game at Turn 4 and the vampires only had a unit of skeletons left, mannfred was turned to dust as his unit was surrounded by HE spears and Dryads. Teclis was great but I want to play test a different army to deal with the types of armies mentioned above.
In the end it was a solid victory for the elves even though we lost alot of WE units.
Thanks again for all your help!
Try the Null stone - but the issue is that a High Elf Prince with Null Stone is not well protected....even a Star Dragon Prince is only S4/T3 with 4+ armour save...he'll have to hope he gets a decent charge and wipes the floor with the opponent.