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I'm new to fantasy and have decided on the High Elves as my army. I'm thinking of using Tyrion in a 2k list. Is he worth it, or should I go for a dragon prince/mage instead? Anyone with some experience using him? Thanks.
well you can hardly say you are going wrong with Tyrion. Great general, gives some great abillities. I'd have him leading either reaver knights or silver helms as Dragon Princes are too expensive if you already have Tyrion onboard.
I personally don't like Tyrion.. he's simply unkillable except by static CR. but what does he offer for his points? 4x str7 attacks and a once per battle breath? (ok and his horse hits too.. 2 more str4 WS4 attacks)
he's a glorified tank that won't die.. but won't kill anything either.
for a lord choice I'd either take Teclis for some smoking magic power but you have to give him a protection unit,
or a prince on a star dragon with vambraces of defence and armor of caledor, that gives you a flying terror bomb with str4 breath each turn, and alternatively 11x high str high WS attacks.
the prince/stardragon is worth about 620 pts, so that's 56 pts per attack, while Tyrion is 400, which gives you 100 pts per attack! (ok, 80 pts if you add the horse 2 weak and count them as 1 more good hit) so Tyrion is almost double the pts cost. and his breath weapon is only 1 time. and doesn't fly
I don't see his value honestly.
Last edited by mishari26; October 28th, 2009 at 06:58.
I like Tyrion. He might not have a huge amount of attacks, but I think you can reasonably expect for almost all of them to hit with his WS9. And S7 even not on the charge packs quite a punch, especially if the unit he's with rubber lanced. Moreover, he's next to immortal IMHO (1+armour, 4+ward and regen) and has MR. And costs 200+ points less than a Prince on Dragon. And is a fairly cool model. In other words, I see him as a good choice.
Hope this helped
Dont put him in a unit. Run him on his own and terrorize your enemies back lines while the rest of your units smash the front.
I've seen this done to incredible effect.
Current painting project: 2300 pts of Dwarfs in 5 weeks.
and WS9 only helps in making enemy WS4 or less hit on a +5 instead of +4.. which is again more parrying defense, adds almost nothing to offense.
So out of the 4 attacks, 2.66 will actually hit. and assuming T5 or less, 2.22 will wound.
factoring in his horse, you're likely to average 2-3 kills not more.
He's just unkillable.. and incredibly fast! so as stratovarion said, sending him alone to the flank can get him in contact with enemy shooters in 2nd turn and flanking easy enough.
question remains, will his few wounds and +1 flank bonus overcome the enemy's outnumber and possible standard and on a tie, a musician? IF he does kill the promised 2 AND he has flank then he wins CR barely... and his benefit would be tying up a shooting unit and probably not breaking it.. so they stay and fight another turn..
You're right mishari26, he will hit average troops as well as any swordmaster will. But for sure he will hit on a 3 almost everything, including many combat oriented lords.
If he is used to take out danegrous back-line opponents, he is going to cause a world of hurt. A cannonball will wound him with 25% chance. Same with a Bolt Thrower or a magic spell which could be frying your relatively unprotected shock troops. I would fear armies that can field flaming magic missiles that can bypass his armour, or flaming war machines, far more than a mundane Empire or Dwarf cannon.
Tyrion has a great distraction factor, and unlike a prince on a Star Dragon, he does NOT lose combat effectiveness. A Star Dragon prince uses up one additional hero slot, is extremely difficult to protect as well as Tyrion can be (unit protection for 1-2 turns, then serious charging capability out of units). I would possibly consider taking Tyrion + a BSB noble in games where I don't need the terror and flying effect of the star dragon....
Tyrion is not rubber lanced as he has WS9 S7 attacks all teh time. Sure these attacks are flaming - just don't put him up against another High Elf Army (!)...he will tear apart most combat Vampire and Chaos Lord builds due to his high strength magical ASF attacks and ridiculous armour save and stacked ward saves. He suffers slightly against Dark Elf Pendant lord builds, but there his high ward saves and 2 S4 attacks from Malhandir, along with much higher WS will play well.
My aprpoach is to Portect Tyrion and use him to bolster a battle-line of Elven shock cavalry (Dragon princes only these days) and then break him away once they have dealt with the front line unit and concentrate on flanking or taking out difficult to kill units like war machine batteries.
As he is best placed taking out small units with high armour save and low SCR, he would be excellent at taking out monster riders as well, as depending on how well equipped the enemy lord is, he can target either the monster or the rider, and his charge range is as high as a typical monster.
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also, since Tyrion's whole design and build is to be almost unkillable.. I really don't think you should spend ANY more effort in protecting him at all! in fact, any enemy who decides to direct ANY shooting in Tyrion's way, would be wasting his ammunition.
Take the example of 40x handgunners firing at close range on him, they're likely to score 0.55 wounds on him! (his AS is actually +0 not +1, check the HE FAQ).
1x Bolt thrower is likely to score 1D3 wounds 16% of the time. giving about 0.33 wounds.
1x great cannon is likely to score 1D6 wounds 25% of the time. which is about 0.87 wounds.
so it is actually the great cannon thats your best bet if you want to actually KILL him.
But... why bother? he's not much of an offensive power anyway. if I went against him I'd just try to engage him with a small tanky stubborn unit to play with til the end of the battle. and my opponent will cry seeing his 400 points go to waste.
Last edited by mishari26; October 28th, 2009 at 14:55.
Putting him up against infantry might not bring back his points, but with his high strength attacks he can pack a punch against characters or monsters. Combined with his awesome saves, he's the perfect monster/character hunter or you can just use him to gain flank/rear bonus.
Played correctly, his more than worth his points IMO.
5000p. High Elves