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Hello there, fellow pointy ears!
Been reading a lot lately about the 8th Edition WHFB, and I see some potentially nerfs of our beloved Elves. High Elves have two very distinct special rules that makes up the army and justifies pretty high cost:
1. The ASF ability
2. The ability to take one less core unit than any other race in the game
So my question to you is, do you think an 8th Edition will ruin any of these special treats for us? For example a change in the ASF rule or a new, god forbid, force organization chart like the one in 40K.
And, if any of these happen, would you be satisfied with a rewritten book like the Dwarfs got?
5000p. High Elves
An 8th edition would be useless itself now, IMO. Not everybody got their new book, and the 7th edition has been out for what, 2 years? Too little if you ask me. Anyways for what regards changes, the only thing that comes to my mind which is in need to be changed is Silver Helms, maybe the magic items need to be touched up (weapons anyone?). Apart from that we're quite fine, I think.
EDIT: woo 200th post
Ah, I see I made myself pretty unclear, I meant off course the whole WHFB Edition, not the specific HE rules. The rumours have been hanging around for quite some time now.
@Congrats on 200th post!
5000p. High Elves
I see, sorry I didn't catch that. Anyways I don't think they would destroy what makes the HE peculiar, hope the 8th edition, should it come out soon, will deal minor issues and basicly touch up unclear/uncertain/unbalanced aspects of the game, eg the autobreak against fear causers about which so much has been told.
Why would you think that you would get a new force organization chart O_o
The newest edition of 40k has seen its codexs set up more like Fantasy Army Books, but its force organization chart didn't change at all. So you have probably 0 worries about your chart being changed.
A youth with his first cigar makes himself sick; a youth with his first girl makes other people sick. - Mary Wilson Little
I'd love to see some more variety in the standard mission set-ups for Fantasy.
I'd love to see Demons ACTUALLY SUSCEPTIBEL to magical weapons and attacks - lose the "true ward save" bull....Magical weapons ought to remove the effects of a "magical aura" save
I'd also like to see a benefit for manouvre a bit more - like making units which fail a charge have a chance to become disordered and maybe suffer a -1 to SCR next turn?:
1) Make Frenzied units EVEN MORE of a liability
2) Mean that you have to be pretty certain to hit your opponent when declaring charges
I'd like to see units be able to fire ballistic weapons like bows as a "cloud" similar to LoTR - this is how bows were used in warfare, and makes archer blocks reasonably viable - maybe not in stand and shoot, but at other times. And maybe with a -2 to hit, but ignores cover? (as the shots come in over teh top..)
I'd like some weapons to be amended - halberds and spears for example ought have a bonus vs mounted models and large targets (maybe mounted units FEAR them?). Halberds maybe should be able to fight in two ranks rather than just 1 as a compromise, only when charged. And maybe spears ought to get a bonus when charged for the shieldwall, simialr to parry bonus that hand-weapons get (again - watch the Greek shieldwalls at the front of the Phalanx - pretty difficult to argue that the formation benefitted from overlapping shields etc)
Finally, I'd like to see guess-range war machine shooting weakened a little as well as maybe -1 BS on all non-guess-range war machines, as these things are not as accurate as a guy holding a bow... Guns were not that reliable in the days of push-of-pike, which is really what large elements of WHFB seeks to model. A few more devestating consequences if the guesses are wildly out would be nice. A fair rule that makes "backfield sniping" a little riskier (playing the odds at hitting a target that you can see vs one you can't), for example, if a cannonball overshoots its target unit/model then there is a % chance the powder load was too high and the gun may have burst - -1 from all future misfire effects rolls....Or even every shooting turn does some detriment to the cannon (-1W for firing?), such that the firing player may choose one turn to allow the cannon to cool etc and reduce ill effects (+1W for not firing?)...
Oh an d for 8th edition Elves..
1) Some better magical swords
2) Either Core or WS5 Silver Helms, or free Champion
3) Honours or something similar, rather than jus relying on the magic item slots (compare our Lord choices to the Empire even - they have a "Knight" honour, "Elector" honour and "ArchLector" honour for their Lord choices. Don't get me started on Vamps and Chaos!!)
Last edited by kithre; December 7th, 2009 at 12:02.
Personally for the 8th edition HE book I'd like to see ASF across the board dropped to make our points more realistic, especially for our core units that don't benefit from ASF too much (maybe have a special rule for Sword Masters and White Lions that removes penalties for using great weapons), plus it would make more sense (otherwise you have to ask the question, why the hell don't Wood Elves and Dark Elves have ASF? After all, they're the same race as the High Elves).
I've no problem with GW changing our minimum core requirement as long as we have decent core to take - at the moment our core just isn't good enough/cheap enough to want to take more than the minimum requirement.
What we desperately need is something to deal with the hordes of terror-casuing monsters all the newer books seem to be able to take (and in multiples in the case of Lizardmen). This is especially key at below 2000 points where we can't even field a dragon (unless you want to cripple your army selection by taking a Dragon Mage)
Given that High Elves are expert monster hunters (enough practice - seas off Cothique and the mountains of the Annulli) mayhaps some form of bonus vs tough/nasty critters is enough rather than teh blanket ASF? I'd say only Swordmasters should have ASF TBH...
I think that not every single elf is a skilled monster hunter. The only unit I clearly recognize as such is WL, with Shadow Warriors on a second place and perhaps Reavers after those. It wouldn't make much sense, IMO, if a Mage or a simple citizen who is fighting because of the levy knew exactly where to thrust in order to make as much damage as the creature's body allows to. Moreover, a bonus against said monsters (could we consider as a monster anything with a 40mm or more base?) wouldn't absolutely be enough of a replacement for ASF. Correct me if I am wrong, but there's nothing except for OK which usually fields many big-based models and some armies almost do not have them.
In my opinion the current HE rules are quite fine, they'd only need to be touched up: Silver Helms, magical items. But here I'm repeating myself.
My personal opinion, anyways.
You're jumping the gun a bit here, aren't you? We haven't even got 8th ed yet, and a new HE book is likely to be 2-3 years after that. Maybe ASF will disappear, maybe it won't - It's a candidate for change, though. Ultimately it all depends on what 8th ed actually brings in (or not).Errr...why? Frenzy is difficult enough to use as it is.1) Make Frenzied units EVEN MORE of a liability
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone