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I'm slightly miffed by the rules governing transferable special abilities when a character joins a unit. I'll use Korhil and Caradryan as examples. If this question has been posted before or included in the rule book, please enlighten. I've looked through the rule books but the information is rather scattered. Here's what I know, please correct me if i'm wrong.
- Fear causing (works both ways)
- Ward saves (only applies to character or unit with said ability. E.g. if Caradryan joins unit of Whitelions, only character has 4+ ward save. If Korhil joins unit of PG, Korhil will NOT gain 4+ ward save)
- Magic resistance (works both ways, use best possible, not accumulative)
- Stubborn (works both ways as per rulebook)
- Woodsmen (I have no idea, please explain. Similarly, what happens to the Scout rule? e.g. if Alith Anar joins a unit of Sword Masters? I understand that if a character joins a unit with Scout ability, the character can also scout)
As far as I know its something like this:
- A character with fear does not make his unit cause fear, but gives the unit immunity to it. For the purposes of causing insane courage from outnumbering with fear it the charatcer has to have the higher unit strength, not the unit.
- Ward save is spot on
- Magic Resistance is spot on
- Stubborn is only used with the leadership of the unit that has it. A unit of White Lions cannot test on stubborn 10 using the general's leadership, they're still leadership 9. If the general is in the unit, use the best one at the time.
- Woodsman I'm fairly certain says specifically in the entry, but characters don't confer things like Scout to units, and characters do not gain Scout from joining a unit with it, althought that would be great if it did!
1) Fear is spread to the unit. He makes them immune, and, so long as he is part of the regiment, they count towards his Unit Strength for autobreaking etc.
2) Ward save only affects the model that it is on
3) Magic Resistence affects everything in the unit. The character can grant it, or the unit can grant it to a character.
4) Stubborn: The leadership of a stubborn unit is never modified. They may use other character's leadership (including characters who join their unit) but if these characters are not stubborn themselves, they will have their leadership modified. Stubborn troops may always use the better leadership.
White Lions (Ld8, stubborn) are joined by a Prince (Ld10). They lose combat by 1. The prince's leadership is reduced to 9, but the White Lions stays at an 8. The prince has the better leadership, and so they use his. Next round, the unit loses combat by a whopping 7 points. Now the prince's leadership is reduced to 2, but the White Lions stays at an 8. The Lions have the better leadership, and so they use their own.
5) Woodsmen does affect characters who join the unit. Rules on pg58 of the HE armybook.
6) A unit which begins the game Scouting may not be joined by character who are not scouts themselves. It is simply impossible, as scouts are the last units to be deployed: characters would already be on the table. If they are deployed normally, they may be joined by a character as usual.
in addition to the captains great answer, i want to add that it IS possible for a non-scout character to join a unit of scouts in subsequent rounds of the game.
You want your noble with reaver bow into a unit of shadow warriors. and you want to place your shadow warriors in a wooded feature 8 inch from your deployement zone.
In your last deployment turn you put your reaver noble as close to the wooded feature as possible. Next, when scouts are deployed (and the opponent doesn't claim the feature with his own scouts) you can put your scouts into the woods. Then in your first player turn, you march your noble into your unit of shadow warriors joining them. the noble can't shoot the first turn as he marches, but the unit shadow warriors can, with a -1 modifier for moving. In subsequent rounds the unit (including noble) can do their usual thing, and shoot the enemy to bits.
Last edited by Byjugo; February 1st, 2010 at 15:56.
'Its better to have a swordmaster and not need her help, then to need her help and not have her'
Byjugo's WIP Thread
- The unit is immune to fear effects.
- The US of the unit for purpose of fear-causing is considered as only 1 (or the number of fear-causing characters if they're more than 1). not the full US of the whole unit.
example, if Caradryan joins 20 WhiteLions, and they charge 10x Empire swordsmen, the swordsmen test for fear, and if they fail they don't flee, but stand and can only hit back on 6's for that round.
Same goes for breaktests, if said Whitelions with Caradryan win combat against the swordsmen, the swordsmen DON't autobreak, but get to roll a breaktest normally. because the amount of fear-causing models is less than the swordsmen US.
Am I wrong in this understanding?
Which makes me wonder, why does Korhil have the Woodsman rule anyway? it doesn't add anything to him. I mean if he's with a unit he can't give the rule to them, and if he's alone, he's a skirmisher and doesn't need it. Am I wrong here? (I'm guessing its just for tidyness, since he's the captain of the Whitelions, and it wouldn't be fitting if he didn't have it?)
Last edited by mishari26; February 6th, 2010 at 08:30.
So... would anyone say that Korhil on a Whitelion chariot, can ignore woods penalties?? meaning the chariot does not get damaged when entering the woods?
I would say no, Korhil's chariot does NOT benefit from Woodsman. Typically, only psychology will transfer up/down between a mount and rider. This is even more true, as the Chariot is essentially a separate entity to Korhil (it has it's own wounds).
As for Fear etc. I have read the section in the rulebook. It doesn't clearly state how the unit is affected by a character with Fear in it's ranks.
It does say that Fear will only be in effect if the enemy unit is actually engaged against the character, rather than only the unit around him. It also measures Terror from the character, rather than the unit. The part that I am most interested in however, is whether or not the unit strength of the regiment, can be added to that of the character in question. That is never stated. I have always played that yes, it is. Nobody wants to fight a big scary bloke, especially when he's got 20 of his friends around him.