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Im new to the game and I really need help fighting a 3500 point Chaos Army. Everytime I seem to lose really badly. He has a lord on a dragon, hell cannon, kholek suneater, and a hero on a juggernaunt. plus chaos knights and warriors which are nurgle so its minus one to shoot and a few other units.
I thought i would dominate in the magic phase but it is also close as he has the same amount of mages plus he has a few dispel scrolls. I normally do well shooting due to having a few bolt throwers and 2 unit of archers. In close combat even when charging with dragon princes and 2 lion charriots its normally uneffected due to his knights and warriors having a 1+ (knights) and 2+ (warriors) armour saves plus the unit size of his warriors.
I normally use lores of metal and heavens, most of heavens spells are hard to cast so with my third mage i have lore of fire, because fireball cast on 5+ so if everything else fails and can fall back on at least one spell.
Any advice would be hugly appreciated in what units/ special characters to use.
Im not a very tactical person I normally hold back try shooting and using magic as much as i can until the last possible moment. But if there is a common tactic which will always work please let me know.
I would go with Teclis with the Lore of Metal, maybe another Archmage with the Book of Hoeth and the Lore of Metal. That way you are almost secured to get of at least one irresistable spell every turn.
Is is lord on Dragon Nurgle? If he isn't direct all your shooting at him, and you'll eventually get him. Also, how big are his Warrior units? If they are really big, they are easily outmanouvred, and this opens for totally ignoring them and consentrating on taking everything else.
Hope it helps,
5000p. High Elves
Thanks for your reply, his main unit of warriors he has 18 there are a very strongth unit they normally stand my charge attack. The dragon isnt nurgle but he keeps it near the back, i didnt think you can shoot over units??
The army i have thought of for 3500 points:
Prince on Star Dragon with Lance, Sword of might, Armour of Caldor and Vambraces of Defence
Level 2 Mage on barded steed: Ring of fury, silver wand
Level 2 Mage: Jewel of dusk, dispel scroll
5 x Bolt Throwers
2x Lion Chariot
15 x Archers with Hawkeye
15 x Archers
15 x Spearmen with Standard Bearer and Sential
10 x Dragon Princes full command, Lion Standard
10 x Dragon Princes full command, Arane Protection Banner
Total Points: 3492
Even though most his units are nurgle i was hoping to shoot and use magic to get rid of most of them before they can get near me. I reckon this time he will use more than one hell cannon, is there an easy way to get rid of them? Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I can't really help much with Chaos specific advice, I have very limited experience against them.
I can make some general comments about your list though and some other bits and pieces.
First up, a large target is pretty much always in sight, so your dragon is visible and so is his, unless they are behind large terrain (ask at the beginning of the game if in doubt) or other large targets. So yes you can shoot at him to your hearts content even if he is behind his own troops.
Second, as an inexperienced player with, I assume a limited army, I suggest that you play slightly smaller games to initially, 3000 points is extremely difficult to balance and still be effective. It means you can test unts without sacrificing hours of playtime when they don't work.
Third, if shooting and magic is your weapon then march-blocking is the most important aspect in your army. I would add in 1 eagle and replace a unit of 10 dragon princes with 2 units of 5 reavers, or 5 reavers and 5 shadow warriors. Then split your unit of 10 Dragon Princes up into 2 units of 6 dropping archers to units of 10 to be able to afford this and adding more spears.
Lastly, as Chaos have to challenge including Caradryan is definitely a bonus, his ability to cause D3 wounds can make a real difference in a challenge, enabling him to generate a decent chunk of combat res alone, you can also equip your DP Champ with Helm of fortune giving a 1+ re-rollable save, very hard to kill in a challenge if allowed an armour save.
So in closing My version of your list;
Teclis in spears
Prince, Vambraces, Armour of Caledor, Talisman of Loec, Lance
Mage L2, Seer staff + Scroll (beast cowers on 2 dice every turn)
Caradryan in Spears
22 Spears Command and Warbanner + Caradryan and Teclis (the 15 spears plus some ex archers)
6 Dragon Princes, Full Command, Banner of Sorcery (to support the Prince)
6 Dragon Princes, Full Command, Banner of Ellyrion (to flank him and support spears)
5 Reavers (ex Dragon Princes if necessary)
5 Shadow Warriors (ex Archers)
2 Lion Chariots
5 Repeater Bolt Throwers
Move the eagle, Reavers and Shadow Warriors to March-Block one flank, shoot the dragon with all 5 Bolt Throwers (single bolts), Magic the flank that isn't march blocked. Try and set up your dragon princes to flank where ever your spears eventually fight and support your spearmens charge with both the lion chariots. Where you can dominate is with Static combat resolution (+6 (incl. outnumber) in spears alone) so don't be afraid of Hand weapons and shields to give better survivability. Let the kills come from the chariots and Dragon Princes.
March-blocked his infantry moves 4" a turn so can charge you in turn 5 at the earliest. This makes his cavalry the key target for spells and shooting, if you can drop the dragon in turn 1 then direct the rest of your shooting at the Hell cannon(s) to get them out of the way, potentially they will rain on your spearmen and wreck them. (cast disable Warmachine (at Hell cannon) and Fury of the Forge (at knights) with 4 or 5 dice every turn from Teclis)
Make Teclis your general, this is a gamble, but he is going to be nearer the bulk of your army so his Leadership will potentially be more useful.
It won't really work as well as it sounds but it gives you something to think about anyway.
Thanks for you advice I will make some changes to my army. As im new to the game I kind of understand the purpose of march blocking but dont really know how to use it effectively? Do you move the ellrian reavers and eagle out in front of your army and target the units you want to march block?
By doing this willn't all his magic and shooting be all directed at them units which means they probably will only last 1 turn?
Also Ive been told the hell cannon is classed as a monster?? If so is there any good spells to defeat it
Last edited by ivo_88123; May 14th, 2010 at 11:15.
Yes they will be targetted with magic but that is less coming at you combat blocks and it takes quite a lot of magic to kill all 3 units. The shooting from your opponent will really only be the hell cannon and if they shoot at your march blockers then that's a bonus. d6 hits is ok for the units, 2d6 will wipe them out so use that as a guide on what to dispel.
Oh yeah I forgot the weirdness of Hellcannons, Lore of Beasts, Beasts Cowers, for them as well then but that will only be from the L2 mage so less of a sure thing.