Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Hi guys! I am converting white lion cavalry at the mo using War lions and riders from chariot kit with silver helm legs. Will probably use the rules for dragon princes to make them playable in games. But was just wondering what rules would people use for them if they could design their own unit and how many points etc would they be.
Think just using Dragon prince profile will work apart from the immune to fire rule. And i think the war lions would be a little tougher than a horse. My idea is to use the white lion of chrace and war lion profile,
Cause fear (war lion)
+1 Str for GW (str 5 cavalry all the time is really good)
3+ armour save in CC (heavy armour and mounted on barded lion) and 2+ v Missle fire due to lion cloaks. not that good an armour save in combat but think all units have some weakness in a high elf unit.
The 1 attack is not great but than the lion has two attacks.
The reason for this is that i am making a Chracian themed army to play in friendly games.
There is really no reason for you not to do this, however I would add that the lions aren't barded so only a 3+ save in combat.
So that would be 2+ against shooting and 4+ ion combat.
All the special rules make sense other than that.
I would add that they can't march, Lions are not beasts of Burden and are inherently lazy except for short burst of speed so M8, no marching but a 16" charge.
I would say that 35 pts (Based off Lizardmen cold-one cavalry who are almost as good) should be what they cost as a minimum, maybe even as high as 40 is justifiable.
I think the lions should be barded, if only not to give them movement of 8.
They fight like chaos knights that are always first and their mounts have more initiative (and high strength), tough they are only toigness 3 and armour save 3+ in melee. They are also stuborn and cause fear, and of course don't forget that they moove normaly through wood (which is a huge advantage for cavalry). I say at least 40 points, probably around 45 (though I go for the vertion with barding), becouse the fear and stuborn make them even better than chaos knights.
The price for command should probably be 20 for champ and standard and 10 for musician.
Good luck with your knights, and tell us how did they do on the playtest
I just think Fear and stubborn for a unit is a really nasty combination. Because not only won't you be autobraking most of the time (except against the largest terror causing creatures) but you will be at a minimum Ld 8. The main weakness of Cavelry is that if they don't break a unit i nthe first round then they can be overwhelmed. The Lion Cavelry on the other hand can smash into the enemy get a ton of charge attacks and then happily proceed to go toe to toe with the enemy until the enemy is invariably ripped to pieces.
As I say I don't think there is thematically wrong with the unit and it isn't too powerful (at the end of the day with T 3 and a 3+ armour save there is still plenty of stuff that can bring them down), but the unit is a very powerful unit because it is so flexible. It is fast, it hits hard and keeps hitting hard, it is tough to shift, it causes fear and it can even exploit woodland which most heavy cavelry can't.
Essentially can you ever think of a situation which you wouldn't take Lion cavalry. I would think not. And for me that is a problem.
How would I change it? I would probably get rid of woodsman at the very least. I would make the unit a rare choice and probably 0-1. I would probably say the unit carries cavalry axes which give +2 Strength on the charge and +1 strength there after.
Just a few thoughts.
(BTW the models would look really good).
Last edited by Visitor Q; May 30th, 2010 at 23:07.
Think even with cavalry axes they would be strength six on the charge and strength five after that, as white lions have strength four anyway.
Think removing the woodsman rule is fair and maybe even the stubborn as lion chariots don't have those rules either.
Maybe a four plus armour save for heavy armour and mounted and a two plus from missles because of the lion cloaks.
Fear will have to stay as the lions are scary!
Think then the points would be about 30 - 35 and 50 for full command upgrade as with dragon princes.
They could be a 0 -1 choice and a rare slot i agree but special in a Chracian list.
Chracian list idea:
Princes, nobles as normal but no dragon armour, lances or shields allowed and Great axes are a must, No dragons or elvern steeds but War lions, eagles and griffons are allowed.
Mages as normal but no Dragon mages
archers and spearmen but no sea guard
obviously only white lions and chariots from the special unit choices
Bolt throwers and great eagles from the rare.
Korhil only special character allowed.
What you guys think
Pheonix Guard come and go according to thier own designs. Therefore they would be Rare.
Arguably 1 unit of sword masters per mage would be allowed to represent an honour guard (again Rare)
I would actually say no bolt throwers as they don't seem to fit with a woodland based army.
A Chracian army must take one unit of White Lions (why wouldn't you anyway!) but they count as a Core unit. After the first then they are special as normal.
So List would be
1 unit of White Lions.
White Lion Chariots
White Lion Cavalry
Personally, I say that the thick pelts (the same ones that repel arrows) and their tough physique, cause Lions to count as being barded. This rule goes together with any Cold One unit, as the model does not show barding, and although the chariots are pulled by the same creatures, they do not also suffer the -1 movement.
This makes the Lions M7. That's almost as slow as regular White Lions. The difference is that the MWLs should cost about 3.5 times as much. I would drop the Woodsman rule. They can keep Stubborn and Fear. They lose their Lion Cloaks, as these special White Lions have chosen to take the longer road of breaking their lion to a rider, rather than killing it.
The army list would look like this:
Archmage (may not be army general)
Korhil (does not count against Char count)
White Lion Chariots
1+ White Lions
Chracian Huntsmen (count as Shadow Warriors)
*may include 1 of these units for each White Lions or White Lion Chariot in the army
White Lion Cavalry
The Chracians disdain ranged warfare, preferring instead to take their battle directly to the heart of the enemy and meet him face to face. Thus, RBTs and archers make no appearance in their armies. However, Chracians are skilled hunters and sometimes militias will band together with their bows to stalk the enemy and harass him until the enemy arrives.
White Lion Cavalry are only available to Chracian lists.
I Think if you start addidg Phoenix guard or Sword masters then the army loses it's theme a bit. My chracian army is almost done (just need to convert two more riders) the list looks a bit like this
Korhil captain of the White Lions
Noble Mounted on Great Eagle
Heavy armour, Great Weapon, Reaver Bow and Enchanted Shield (enchanted lion pelt)
Mage Lv 1 with 2 Dispel Scrolls
Noble mounted on Warlion (Barded elvern steed)
Dragon armour (Because i'll use the dragon prince rules for my Lion Cavalry)
Shield (lion pelt), Star Lance (star Axe)
20 Spearelves + full command and war banner
20 Spear elves + full command
19 White Lions + Full command and Standard of Balance (korhil goes here)
10 White Lions + Champion
5 Lion Cavalry (Dragon Princes) + Full Command and Lion Standard (noble in here)
2 Repeater Bolt throwers
The archers Spears and Mage will have lion Emblems on shields, Robes etc
This list is not ment to be competative reallly just a bit of themed fun and will look really good on the table. Also thinking about a Griffon riding prince in larger battles.