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View Poll Results: do you like sword masters in 8:th ed?

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  • yes,yes,yes the are elite killers

    24 70.59%
  • no they gonna kill a half block and soon die (thats isnt worth)

    3 8.82%
  • i like them but they are not worth the points

    1 2.94%
  • i take a unit of white lions or pheonix guards instead of sword masters

    6 17.65%
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    sword masters in 8:th edition?

    when i first looked in the 8:th ed book i was thinking about the sword masters in 7:th edition their only defence was to kill everybody who can fight back but now they can fight back (if the sword masters dont kill all of them now).
    so i wondering how do you use them now, and do you use them now?


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    Member mishari26's Avatar
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    Swordmasters gained rerolling misses. Which I tried and is truly amazing.

    But they are flimsy and are more vulnerable now. Though when I used them they actually killed so much that the attacks back were actually reduced even when taking from the back.

    But now in 8th ed. I fully intend to use use them more and have a supporting mate to buff them with Toughness or Armor or Regeneration

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    LO's unofficial Jester Visitor Q's Avatar
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    Only played one game of the 8th edition rules so far so this is purely from a theory-hammer perspective.

    I think sword Masters are certianly better at killing things, an extra rank of St 5 goodness and re-rolls to hit means they are going to be packing quite a punch. My only concern is that T3 and 5+ armour save is not very durable. Volly fire will quite simply decimate them.

    I am wondering whether small units of 10 supporting a 40 strong unit of spears will still be effective just on the basis that the opposition won't waste his massed fire on them allwoing them to get into combat.

    Other than that I am going to be running White Lions or Pheonix Guard first as at first glance I think they will be more effective.
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    LO's unofficial Jester Visitor Q's Avatar
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    377 (x8)

    Only played one game of the 8th edition rules so far so this is purely from a theory-hammer perspective.

    I think sword Masters are certianly better at killing things, an extra rank of St 5 goodness and re-rolls to hit means they are going to be packing quite a punch. My only concern is that T3 and 5+ armour save is not very durable. Volly fire will quite simply decimate them.

    I am wondering whether small units of 10 supporting a 40 strong unit of spears will still be effective just on the basis that the opposition won't waste his massed fire on them allowing them to get into combat.

    Other than that I am going to be running White Lions or Pheonix Guard first as at first glance I think they will be more effective.
    Last edited by Visitor Q; July 16th, 2010 at 17:58.
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    Senior Member GMAleron's Avatar
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    Every game that i have played so far in 8th edition i have been running these guys and so far i have been loving the results. In three games they have done this:

    -Against wood elves killed 20 eternal guard while only losing the bladelord and 1 swordmaster.

    -Against Chaos butchered a unit of trolls and a troll king while loisng only 2. Then took on a massive block of chaos warriors (6 X6) and slaughtered over 15 of them before dying (had only 10 at the time).

    -Against dark elves 3 of them (all that was left after a bunch of bolt throwers and crowsbowmen) took on a unit of cold 4 cold one knights and the armies general and killed all 4 of the cold one knights before falling to the general after inflicting 1 wound.

    I love these guys and will continue to run them a bunch. However has i and other players have mentioned their weakness against shooting really does hurt them. However i am going to try running my noble with sacred inscense to make it -1 to hit them with arrows at all times which hopefully keep them alive. Also running a mage with the lore of life really helps keep them going. I enjoy phoenix guard as well but swordmasters will always come first in my army.
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    LO's unofficial Jester Visitor Q's Avatar
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    377 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by GMAleron View Post
    Every game that i have played so far in 8th edition i have been running these guys and so far i have been loving the results. In three games they have done this:

    -Against wood elves killed 20 eternal guard while only losing the bladelord and 1 swordmaster.

    -Against Chaos butchered a unit of trolls and a troll king while loisng only 2. Then took on a massive block of chaos warriors (6 X6) and slaughtered over 15 of them before dying (had only 10 at the time).

    -Against dark elves 3 of them (all that was left after a bunch of bolt throwers and crowsbowmen) took on a unit of cold 4 cold one knights and the armies general and killed all 4 of the cold one knights before falling to the general after inflicting 1 wound.

    I love these guys and will continue to run them a bunch. However has i and other players have mentioned their weakness against shooting really does hurt them. However i am going to try running my noble with sacred inscense to make it -1 to hit them with arrows at all times which hopefully keep them alive. Also running a mage with the lore of life really helps keep them going. I enjoy phoenix guard as well but swordmasters will always come first in my army.
    Teclis with Lore of Life could be very tasty as well (although obviously quite expensive).
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    Member mishari26's Avatar
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    I actually love the idea of having Teclis with them. since both buff spells Earth Blood + Flesh to Stone aren't "Remains in Play", which means as long as you make sure they go off (possibly with IF) then you won't be worried about your opponent dispelling them on his turn and leaving you naked.

    Earth Blood however requires that the wizard is in the unit. So I'm kinda skeptic of having Teclis in the thick of the bloodiest fighting. But again, with T5 and Regen5 (T7, Regen 4 if you have the throne of vines on!!), and 3 Wounds, he's likely to stay alive til next turn where he'll just heal himself up again.

    He can actually try to go for challenges too! since he'll probably survive attacks from a single hero than an onslaught of 6-12 infantry attacks.

    edit: also, the good thing about lore of Life is that all it's damage spells are "direct damage" and having Teclis in an engaged unit won't limit his damage dealing capability.
    Last edited by mishari26; July 16th, 2010 at 18:43.

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    Member mishari26's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Visitor Q View Post
    Volly fire will quite simply decimate them.
    Too true!

    Quote Originally Posted by Visitor Q View Post
    I am wondering whether small units of 10 supporting a 40 strong unit of spears will still be effective just on the basis that the opposition won't waste his massed fire on them allowing them to get into combat.
    actually, a shooting unit of 20 (xbows or gunners) BS3 are likely to kill 4.4-3.7 of them.. so I wouldn't see a reason why not shoot a detachment of 10 SM's, I'd even shoot them if they were only 5 in a unit. get rid of a pesky high damage unit, and not a high chance of wasting shots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Visitor Q View Post
    Other than that I am going to be running White Lions or Pheonix Guard first as at first glance I think they will be more effective.
    I think SM's would make a great deathstar unit if protected with some magical augmentation. supporting it with a deep unit of 20-30 PG's of is also a perfect static CR anchor which you just shove down your opponent's center.

    I have no idea why people use WL's honestly :/

    I did some calculation before on the merits of having Str6 over Str5, at 1 attack each instead of 2.. and the SM's came on top in almost every situation against T4 enemies.

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    LO's unofficial Jester Visitor Q's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mishari26 View Post
    Too true!



    actually, a shooting unit of 20 (xbows or gunners) BS3 are likely to kill 4.4-3.7 of them.. so I wouldn't see a reason why not shoot a detachment of 10 SM's, I'd even shoot them if they were only 5 in a unit. get rid of a pesky high damage unit, and not a high chance of wasting shots.


    I think SM's would make a great deathstar unit if protected with some magical augmentation. supporting it with a deep unit of 20-30 PG's of is also a perfect static CR anchor which you just shove down your opponent's center.

    I have no idea why people use WL's honestly :/

    I did some calculation before on the merits of having Str6 over Str5, at 1 attack each instead of 2.. and the SM's came on top in almost every situation against T4 enemies.
    In regard to shooting it is an opportunity cost calculation. If you are shooting atthe Sword Masters you are not shooting at another unit such as a large block of Spearmen, a bolt thrower, archers ad so forth. Personally I agree that the best use of archers and missile fire is to destroy small untis rather than try and damage large tough units. None-the-less I have found that small supporting units of SM seem to get ignored by many opponents.

    In regard to White Lions I would say that the 1 St6 attack vs 2 St5 attacks is only half the story. I presume you have taken into account the additional -1 Armour Save the White Lions get, so moving on from that they are always stubborn they have Woodsmen special rule (not sure how this will work in the new rules) and for me their Lion Cloaks are invaluable for actually getting across the board intact.

    Don't get me wrong I really like Sword Masters, and as with most things concerning warhammer there is no right answer because the rest of the army and style of play is so important but I find I get better results from White Lions than from Sword Masters.
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    Yeah, it doesn't benefit the SMs to be more killy than WLs, if they die before making it to combat.

    SMs are nasty and will most likely win combat against most horde units, but you will lose a lot in return. Just look at crappy marauders, you kill a good 18 or so, but then you lose half your unit in return. You'll need to aim them at smaller more elite units to get the most out of them and then hope they don't die to magic/shooting, because anything with a ranged attack just looks at that unit and they fall over dead.
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