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Well, I used to rail against these units as I thought that they were just too expensive for the damage that they put out. I still feel that way, but I'm not sure what the new opinions on them are, now that they've changed the rules for mounted Great Weapons. I've been thinking about this for a while as a result.
D6 S5 Impact hits
4 S5 WS5 Lion attacks
2 S6 WS5 Rider attacks
worth the points cost?
More importantly, is
2 extra attacks at +2S
and an extra 1S on the charge, 2S off the charge
and +1 armor save
Worth the difference between a Tirannoc and Lion chariot? You can get almost 2 of the Tirranoc chariots for the price of a single Kitty Kart.
Finally- are either of these weapons worth competing for 10-man regiments of Elite Infantry. Especially when they have to charge to get their Impact Hits.
What are your thoughts on the matter? I like the models for the WLCs, but that's not what this is about. This is about raw usefulness between the High Elves two Chariot choices.
I have always found it difficult to justify the cost of a Lion Chariot. In saying that they are a fantastic hammers.
Chariots in general have gotten slightly better as hammers when hitting the flank +1 for flank, +1 for charging then their wounds etc. Due to the cost of everything else I can often find the space for a chariot or 2, particularly Tiranoc Chariot.
Still the Lion Chariot is a bit expensive for my taste, I would prefer the tiranoc Chariot + Eagle.
The main difference between the two imo is that the 'Kitty Kart' doesn't need to win on the first turn of combat - it's not so reliant on your impact hits. Fear isn't really worth considering, but 50% more attacks (and at a higher S) are probably worth it, at least in medium/large games.
Well I would take lion chariot over normal one as the bonus strength at all times is nice plus they look 10 times more awesome.
- You must set fire to water or you will be extinguished.
That's what I'm gathering- that a Lion Chariot is better at holding it's own than the Tirannoc, and it's always been that way. But Chariots aren't meant to be sent in unsupported. They should go in, grab their Impacts and the +2 for a Flank&Charge, and then break the enemy away from your main regiment. The regiment whose flank they're covering should be able to provide enough SCR along with a few kills to keep the enemy in place.
With the almost 2:1 cost, and the narrow bases, Tirannoc chariots would do better in the support role. You can slam a pair of them into an enemy regiment, for a total of 2D6 Impacts, 4S4 Crew attacks, and 4S3 steed attacks. Chariots tend to obliterate cavalry as well, if they can get the charge off. I think that a pair of chariots on each flank would be ideal for keeping those smaller, lighter flanking regiments at bay, and for cutting in to flank hordes or heavies.
I have been playing HE for almost 4 years now and I can never say that I have actually taken a Tirannoc Chariot, I have always prefered the Lion Chariot as I could use to be able to send it out on its own and hunt down warmachines, small units of archers and fast cav and know that they could get the job done by themselves. I still believe that to be the case but I havent taken either chariot in the new enviroment (for much cav either) as I had rathered putting more rank and file models on the field.
I do agree with the captain about the 2 Tirannoc's on each of the flanks, it would definatly make my opponents think twice about their deployments. On the other hand the Kitty Karts have never failed me either and it is this reason why my opponents always try and elimate them before combat, esp. if they know a flank charge is coming.
Just a quick question though, does the Kitty Kart benifit from the +2 Armour save bonus from the White Lion cloaks that the crew are wearing, because if they do a 2+ Armour save against shooting makes them very viable......
Last edited by The Shadow King; September 9th, 2010 at 23:30.
Actually i really like it. The tiranoc chariot i would probably use in pairs anyway so it would still cost more, but i'm really liking the higher strength of the lions. Riders strike first with rerolls at s5... nice. Lions are a part of the fight and not just an afterthought like the horses usually are.... even nicer.
I don't have the book or FAQ on hand to quote exactly, but no- WLCs don't get the Cloak bonus.
I understand that Lion Chariots do look absolutely amazing, and as far as rules, it seems that it all depends on how you use them. I've never heard of them being used to hunt machines or as anything but a counter-charge or defensive measure. I'm not sure I'd send 5w with just a 4+ across the field to take out machines. Eagles, Shadows, or plain Cavalry seems like it should do better.
My turn for a rules question: can chariots march now? And do they roll 3d6 to charge, or just 2?
Chariots have the Swiftstride Special Rule (3D6 on the charge, persue etc. and discard lowest) and they cannot march.
Though I have rarely sent a chariot into warmachines, I have killed my fair share of dark riders, chaos maurader horsemen, seekers of slaanesh and such trying to sneek up a flank and I have found that they are quite effective in doing so.