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I've been deployed since 8th Edition hit the shelves, so I haven't had a chance to play yet, but I've been reading a ton about it. I don't like what it has done to High Elves.
It seems most lists now consist of just 3 or 4 blocks of troops, because we have to tie up so much of our force in Core choices. By the time your done paying for those, you only have enough points left over for a couple medium sized special units. And it seems to me, where the game is so easily determined by massive blocks of steadfast fodder, having such a small army is just a detriment.
Has anyone else had problems with this? Or am I just seeing problems, where they aren't?
Nights Justice Space Marines
Eldar Eth Kariel Craftworld
Spear of Kurnous - High Elf Expeditionary Army
10 swordmasters would easily hack their way through a massive block of fodder.
While yes, you now have to use more points for core ( I like this change ) , your core is not bad at all. Reroll to hit against virtually every opponent. And spearmen and lothern seaguard can fight in 4, yes 4! ranks. A block of 20 in 5x4 formation will get to hit first with 20 attacks, which reroll to hit. Not much fodder can hold up long to such a storm.
High elf special units are so good, it's no problem to have medium sized blocks. Rerolls to hit is an extremely benefitial bonus. I used the high elf force from Island of blood recently against the skaven force, and the 10 swordmasters killed 4 rat ogres of a unit of 5, before they got to hit back.
All you need is 25% in core, so in a 2000 pts game you can spend a 1000 points on special troops, and that number is only limited by yourself, by how much you spend on characters and rares.
High elves might be an elite army, but they've become really elite-elites. ASF, reroll to hit, high weaponskill and either 2 attacks or high strenght? yes please. The entire high elf list truly is a well oiled machine now. Who knows, I might build a small force of them myself, and that's saying something, coming from a dedicated dwarf player. 2 blocks of 20 seaguard, a block of 15-20 phoenix guard and a block of 20 white lions ( or 2 of 10 ) , with a BSB, a mage, and a bolt thrower or 2. I think that will reach somewhere between 1500 and 2000? And I think it will work like a charm, pouring volleys of arrows into the enemy, holding them up with phoenix guard and going in for the kill with white lions ( I think 2x10 would work rather well, 10 on each flank. )
Steadfast will only get you so far. High Elves ebenfit as unlike a lot of armies, we get a stubborn block, with a General nearby that is Stubborn Ld10, which is pretty cool. Steadfast units are also big baskets with lots of egss (apart from Skaven and gobbos I suppose) and with the new IF rules, they are easy enough to neuter or eliminate for a reasonable cost.
I treat these big blocks the same as I treat horde armies in general - envelop, outmanouvre, force to take Ld tests as many times as possible and one will get through. Its unbreakable units you need t watch out for
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You're right, for games over 1k points you need more core - but it's not so bad. One unit of 50 LSG/Spearmen is capable of dishing out one hell of a kicking, and rarely will the limits mean you need to take more than that. Even 2 blocks of 20 will do the job most of the time. We're faster, have the equivalent of hatred that doesn't run out (except against the odd unit with a higher I than us), and our opponents can't spam low cost spells over and over.
Basically we're not doing too badly. Play a few games first, THEN panic
High Elfs are easily tier one. Dominating magic phases, dominating close combat, above average to great shooting. You guys aren't missing anything. You have 1 weakness and its toughness 3, but that's always been your problem.
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I've only played one game in the eighth edition so far (battle report is up btw ), but I'm unconvinced be the usage of small 10 man troops of elites - they worked great in the 7th, but with the new rules, they lack endurance. With our elites still being t3, and spear hordes throwing 40 attacks per round at us, I'd assume small units like that will most likely be overwhelmed, before they can win their points back - they'll still make great flanking units, but for the main hitting power, I'd go for larger blocks - and for the occasional flanking troop, probably for cav or chariots.
The Silver Knights of Tor Adrac (He): 26/2/4
The Spears of Slaanesh (Woc): 7/2/5
Battlegroup Chalybso (GK): 7/3/3
What I've noticed when fighting and using them that if your seaguard block(s) don't perform you generally lose. (unless you have a level 4 wiz or teclis). Because they cost so much it doesn't leave much room for a lot of elites. In fact, I've been focusing most of my army on sea guard, archers, mages, and bolt throwers. I rarely take carvery because they are just too fast and don't follow the synergy of my army. I usually use a small unit of sword masters, but I'd rather use phoenix guard. But alas, I have what I have.
Dont worry though man, High elves are still up there. They are one of the best armies.
Eldar -APOC- 6500 Points
Chaos Daemons -Fate Crusher- 3500 Points
Grey knights - 1000 Points
about saying that high elves are one of the best armies:
year or so back i found a list of all the armies ranked up in relative strength.
is there something like that known for the 8th ed?
And i really think high elves are one of the best. The way they play just has changed a bit.
'Its better to have a swordmaster and not need her help, then to need her help and not have her'
Byjugo's WIP Thread