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Hi there all you pansy elves A good friend of mine is having huge issues against the 2 gunlines in the friendly guild we play. So I thought Id help him out with some advice - turns out my advice was not very good. So I thought maybe some vets here could help.
The quiz: What would you take, and how would you beat this list (2500 pts):
1 Arch Lector on Waraltar with all the trimmings
1 Lvl 4 mage (fire or shadow) with 4+ wardsave, on horse
1 Captain on Pegasus
2x 8 knights
30+ swordsmen w. 2 detachments of halbardiers
Give it yer best, Im sure itll be fun to beat what you come up with
WFB - Empire, VC, WoC; W40K - Eldar, Dark Eldar
Conversion Web Blog (Danish)
I am no expert against gunlines (esp. empire) and am a bit rusty at the moment but will have a shot at this anyway.
I think that the problem most HE players will have with your list is that our lists are normally a couple of smallish expensive special units or Dragon princes, but these won't really work well due to the range and power of your warmachines. My counter to the army would basically be MSU based around a large unit of spears.
To cross the table for the Warmachines I think I would basically be looking at an MSU approach, 2 Tiranoc Chariots, 2 eagles at least and maybe 12 Movement 6 WLs (banner) and/or 5 Dragon Princes with Banner of Ellyrion. To anchor I would put a Prince in my unit of DPs or WLs with BSB in Spears.
The Prince would get the Radiant Gem of Hoeth and take Death Magic always choosing the basic spell. I would attempt to use this spell to assassinate your magic characters early in the game he has Ld10 so should get +1 or 2 to the dice roll when the spell succeeds. A L2 mage would probably go with Annulian Crystal and High Magic, spamming Drain Magic as often as possible to try and keep the gamebreaking spells out of reach.
Small units of Archers would be my go too here, units of 10 that can stay out of range of your fast Cavalry while peppering them with low strength Bows is crucial esp. outriders. This combined with a couple of Repeater Bolt Throwers (at least 2 in this game) just for a bit more variety and for the knights and flying noble.
Combat will be impossible to plan for really as it depends on what suvives the barrages but I would want a spearmen block (at least 1) to anchor my line.
So my list would be
Radiant Gem of Hoeth (Death Magic)
Vambraces of Defence
Dragon armour etc Great Weapon on a barded steed
Mage L2 (High Magic) (175)
Armour of Caledor
30 Spearmen (295)
5 Dragon Princes (Prince in here)
Banner of Ellyrion
Tiranoc Chariot x 2
Lion Chariot (keep the knights honest)
2 Bolt Throwers
At rough count this leaves me with 425 points to throw around and experiment with. Initially though I think that 14 WLs would make it in my list, Full Command, another Eagle and Bolt thrower. This allows me flexibility in the shooting phase and gives me 6 units that can cross the board in 2 turns easily and WLs and Lion Chariot not far behind them.
By no means is this fail safe, but this is how I would approach it and have approached dwarf gunlines. Unfortunately it comes down to who gets the first turn, I should win if I do and terrain is balanced, you should if you get first turn. Luck obviously will also play a part but an overloaded flank should get 3 or 4 units behind your lines (against 1 round of shooting), and win the game not wiping you out but by killing more points of yours than you can kill of mine. Basically I intend to win by denying you any large points, my DPs and Prince are a gamble as are the WL's. A lucky phase could wipe the DPs out and that would be it for me, I couldn't get that many points back, but I sort of like him to assassinate your L4 mage.
As I said at the start I don't really know empire and don't really deal with your most powerful piece, (Arch-lector), but beating his army around him is normally more effective than trying to beat him alone.
Thanks for reading
I have always found that archers are great against war machines. Fire enougth shots and your sure to get those sixes to wound. one volley from a twenty man unit should kill off a war machine a turn. So three units of twenty is gonna kick ass (although i'd split them into tens and spread them out abit).
Bolt throwers for his knights and Great eagles to hunt the other stuff. Our spear elves can beat ant unit the empire has in close combat, Just make sure they don't get flanked by detachments. If he is going with wizard lords then do the same ours is better.
Phoenix Guard for their ward saves or white lions for the lion cloaks would be best. Leave swordmasters at home because they are going to die.
I think Shadow Warriors would do quite well here, considering it's empire crew with those War Machines. Also, maxing out on RBTs is a thought worth considering. Magic can shut down some shooting and other magic, and a lvl. 4 Mage with Lore of Light is perfect against a gunline. I'm too tired to write a full army list, but it would look something like this:
Lvl. 4 Mage, lore of light + some goodie magic items
Lvl. 2 Mage High Magic for Drain Magic/5+ Ward Save spell
2 large units of spearmen
1 Large unit of PG for sticking the characters in.
3 Small units of Shadow Warriors
With some magic luck, you have 3 units with a 4+ or 5+ Ward save, all units are at -1 to hit in shooting and Warmachines must roll a 4+ to fire, one unit passes all leadership or rallies. With the +1 leadership banner either in the PG or on the BSB, you have all units at LD10 with reroll.
The shadow Warriors scout and charge the Warmachines, RBTs deal with anything they can't charge and the battle line approaches, they should be able to beat anything in close combat.
5000p. High Elves
My old 6 eagle army would be fun against it.
it had archmage lev 4 lore of life hoeth
bsb on horse
lev 2 mage
10 DP FC or 2 units of 5 (then you degrade the bsb and the prince on foot)
15 swordmasters razor standard
15 lions potion of strenght champion
full core of archers
survival prince (steed, caledor, vambraces, great weapon)
Additionally elite of your taste
6 eagles rest rbt`s depending on point levels
All eagles go opposite of outrides/pistoliers threatening as many warmachine as possible. If they gather in middle i`ll toss in front T7 princes and the lions. Archers will shoot the crap out of light empire cavs, then eagles squizze the warmachines. Pretty 40k tactic against IG get them in their face fast and engage hard on all front.
Shadow warriors are good also if you can infiltrate them close enough.
As i see it is not really a gun line with no light shooting support for the empire player. So you can out shoot it in terms of support and out pace it in terms of heavy shooting.
Use swift reforms when needed and start as nice long lines to defend against mortar shots. reform when approach and let them charge you if they dare .
PS no hellcannons in empire armies what is that cannon?
Hight elf and Craftworld Eldar army project pics heavy: linky
I think he means the Hellblaster Volley Gun or the Helstrum Rocket Battery.
5000p. High Elves
Personally I'd use lots and lot of archers as previously mentioned, and a PG unit with banner of sorcery with Archmage, Book of Hoeth and Lore of Life in it. T7 elves are awesome and when you get back up from being dead you don't really care what killed you. Gunline or a spear to the face, it's all the same.