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More than 50 Seaguard
Less than 20 Seaguard
I've been having trouble with sizes for Seaguard units, and wanted everyone's perspective on this. Is it better to run a huge block of 50, or smaller groups of 30, or even smaller units, or larger units?
Last edited by CaptainSarathai; August 24th, 2011 at 06:40. Reason: closing the poll
Tau Empire: We never stop hiding from you
I run mine almost mathematically-
50% of your Core Requirement, with Command Included, to a maximum of 30.
If you can't get your Core fulfilled with 2 units of 30 LSG:
Add another Command, and determine how many more you need after that. If you can get 3 regiments of 24-30 models, go with that.
If not, add to each regiment, to a maximum of 36.
This means that you normally end up with either
or 3x 24
I've always believed that Elves are too pricey to horde, although I've been told that you should always just divide your Core into two regiments of LSG and leave it at that. I don't like Horded elves though, because they fall prey to spells like Dwellers and Seizures, and you can't split your fire as effectively. You'll also find yourself dealing with enemy hordes, which are- sad to say- usually about half as many points per model as an Elf.
Going 6x6 (the absolute max I'd field them) comes out to 12S&S plus 24 Spear attacks, to the normal 24 return attacks from a 20mm horde-charge (they only have 8 guys in). With ASF, you're practically dishing forward 48 attacks, more than enough to win combat and break steadfast, while simultaneously taking as few casualties as possible.
As has been mentioned, I'm a big fan of running the Lsg in a single horde, at least in the bracket I most commonly play (2.5k). Aside from the convenience of filling the core requirement with a single unit, and hardly a point wasted, there's a number of reasons for this.
I'm a firm believer, in that any unit in an army as prone to being outnumbered as ours, needs to be able to stand on it's own.
Now 5x10 deployment is arguably the most efficient/deadly way to field the Lsg. 20 shots, followed by 51 asf hits. That's ~3 dead chaos knights, before those even get to strike. In other words, it's a unit that is, in practice as much as on paper, lethal enough that nothing short of a chaos or blood flavored Knightbus (or similarly expensive unit) can charge it lightly. And it's an anvil unit very much capable of winning fights without support, whittling down even stronger foes, by shear number of attacks.
Magebunkering (Shut up, that's a word)
Now, of course a horde doesn't always get all bodies into combat. Which makes storing a mage in their corners, so much safer, since there's a good chance many enemy units won't be able to single him out, or only with one or two models at worst.
Captain is of course right, saying that certain spells threaten a horde more then a small unit. However, the same is true for the opposite, positive spells, like say all those juicy buffs the life lore supplies us with, get a lot more efficient when targeted at a unit this big. (And funnily enough, in the context of the army I usually field - the horde rarely gets shot at, with big scary elite units running around, and once things get close and personal those elite units won't need the defensive buffs anymore). Add in that we're high elfs, and our chances of hindering enemy magic, and getting our own off are pretty good.
Risk / Reward
Yes, loosing a big unit hurts badly. However bringing a horde like this down isn't easy, and running so many eggs in one basket is in itself a decent way to deny victory points. As long as a single guy out of a 50 man horde lives, the enemy doesn't score a single vp. A 24 man unit on the other hand, can vanish rather quick at times, and while you don't risk loosing a lot of points at once, running smaller units will most of the time mean handing vp to your enemy, with a lot less of a fight.
The prosecution rests
The Silver Knights of Tor Adrac (He): 26/2/4
The Spears of Slaanesh (Woc): 7/2/5
Battlegroup Chalybso (GK): 7/3/3
I have tried a horde of 50 Seaguard a couple of times, and though they can really be a psychological asset against your enemies, I remember regretting that I didn't split them in two units. What they DID do, though, was to more or less take out two hydras, because I used the Banner of Eternal Flame together with a couple of Bolt Throwers.
5000p. High Elves
When 8th came out, I knew that seaguard were going to be one of the better core in the game. I always play 2500, and I consider our archers to be way over priced, so I have no problem blowing most of those core points on Sea Guard. Usually a unit around 50 strong, and I'll throw my BSB with the Razor Standard in there as well.
Last edited by sirkently; November 6th, 2011 at 03:38.
I currently run 1 unit of 36 Spearmen (6X6) 1 unit of 32 Spearmen (8x4) and 2 units of 15 Archers (5x3). I was initially tempted by the horde of 50, but I tend to sometimes run a unit of 20-25 LSG as a bunker for a Mage. My Archers have so far earned their place and Command Groups in several games (beating 20 charging Corsairs in combat and no casualties, running them down, twice in two games, and flank charging 50 Khorne Maruaders (GWs) beating them by 1 (Standard!) and breaking them). And the Spearmen just sit there with big grins whilst several mages nuke stuff with the Lores of Metal and High. If I take Seaguard, that's less points on mages!
I also avoid running LSG from a thematic point of view: Guard army of Phoenix Gate (hence lots of militia units and a unit of Phoenix Guard), with a delegation from Hoeth (Swordmasters, maybe 1 Spearman unit and several mages) and possibly the Phoenix King showing up ([I]Phoenix Gate!![I]) with some White Lions and some LSG. So the LSG only get run in my army if the Phoenix King bothers to show up.
Fantasy - Dark Elves, Warriors of Chaos \/ 40K - Word BearersChaos Space Marines
Vargarna i Vinterkylan Chaos Warriors Army Project
Just as many as needed to fill up my core requirement, those points you could have spent on extra SG are better used for Special choices.
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
This thread keeps popping up to the top of the forum as more and more people reply to the Poll- giving it false updates/views. The conversation is long over, and in light of ending this ridiculous thread-cycling, I'm closing the poll.
THIS IS WHY WE PUT END DATES ON OUR POLLS KIDS!
edit- I cannot find a way to close only the poll. Therefore, this thread is closed until further notice.