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  1. #1
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    Spell selection strategies

    Hello everyone, new High Elf player here.

    The purpose of this thread is to discuss the strategies used when rolling for or selecting spells, and different lore setups with this in regard. For example, you generally want your lvl 4 mage to use lore of life, but there are some spells in that lore that are IMO more important than others. The only safe way to reliably get all the spells that you would want there (in every game) is to take either the Silver Wand or the Seerstaff (silver want being the better choice here). This of course makes it impossible to take the Book of Hoeth on that character. Unless you play a large enough game to get another archmage in there, you can't take the book in all its magnificence.

    Another issue here is that Lore of Life is NOT really the lore that gains the most benefit from the Book. The nature of that lore is that you have a lot of spells that you would like to cast, and most are fairly low casting values. All in all, something else out there might be closer to optimal.

    What I would like to do is try running a Lvl 4 with lore of light instead, wielding the book, and having a Lvl 2 with Seerstaff use lore of life. Lore of Light has some huge spells with high casting values (at least if you cast the big version of them), and benefits greatly from the Book since an IF means you always get the spell of regardless of what you rolled. The question then is what spells should the Lvl 2 pick? I would at first glance go for Regrowth and Flesh to Stone, dedicating a few dice for FtS each turn perhaps and Regrowing when need be. But perhaps Regrowth + Throne of Vines is better for more dramatic regrowing when there is great need? (and at great range).

    All in all, I want to learn what you guys think in regard to this. The random nature of spell selection can in some cases ruin games, and some lores are less likely to be useful than others etc etc.

    Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
    Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks

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  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    I typically take a L4 with the Silver Wand, because it frees up points to take some magical defense. The Book is great, but the fact that it maxes out your points and it doesn't give you access to magic abilities means that you may as well just take Teclis.

    I save my lower level mages for Shadows. Light is ok, but most of the spells are redundant for us. For example, +1 attack only affects the first rank, and we tend to gain our fighting prowess from having more ranks, plus ASF means that we don't really need extra attacks because we've essentially got 1.5x more attacks than our profiles show. I10 is pointless when you're I5 with ASF, yeah, it's slightly more useful if you're against something like Chaos Warriors, but there are cheaper ways to get around that. ASF, again, is redundant. The majority of the Damage spells are overpriced and/or available elsewhere, and the Lore attribute is pretty narrow.

    Shadows on the other hand, deals with all of the things that we can't do well. For example, rather than giving our boys extra attacks, we can get S8 Spearmen. What's not to love about that? That's the most overpowered spell we could cast on ourselves, better even than Regrowth. And then for our ASF- rather than go for Speed of Light, why not just use the guaranteed Miasma to drop their Initiative by a D3? Finally, Pit and Pendulum are both limited versions of anti-warmachine spells, and can usually take down the big monsters for us. The Lore Attribute is really nice once you learn how to abuse it, bouncing Mages in and out of range or even in and out of LoS, and getting our Princes and Nobles into or out of bad combats. My personal favorite trick is to challenge out a big bad Lord with a character and last through one round of combat, then toss a Shadows spell and pull a Mage with Folariath's Robes into the challenge instead, leaving the Lord to just stare blankly unless he's packing magical heat.

    Another lore that you've seen me touting over on the WoC forums is the Lore of Heavens. It's a relatively cheap lot of spells, but it's got some good damage capability for ranged casting (admit it- our nonmagical ranged options are horrid) and it also gives us access to Comet, which is a great way to get some pull on those gunlines we hate so much. Even the the zero level is good for us, since it can hold up enemy shooting. Rerolling 1's and 6's in combat is nice as well, making us slightly more survivable and helping us past those crazy difficult armor saves.

    Also, if you want to take a Booky and guarantee that you get the best of the Life spells, or at least Regrowth, back him up with a Lore of Life L2 with the Silver Wand. You roll up 3 spells with the little guy. That should take out 2-3 of the good spells (if you hit Regrowth, drop it for the attribute spell) and then roll your L4. That's a total of 7 spells, one of everything in the lore, or a duplicate that you get to pick. This works for any of the lores, but most Elves only use it for Life, to get Throne and Regrowth.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  4. #3
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    Knew I could count on you, Captain!

    I can't argue that Teclis is usually a better option, but let's for argument's sake say that we are playing a game in which he cannot be used, perhaps in a smaller game of say... 1750 pts.

    Oh, I thought a little bit about that Robe challenge thingy as well, but not before in conjunction with Shadow magic, that's hilarious. What do you think about getting the talisman that negates magical weapons on there as well? Maybe better just to take a 4+ Ward talisman that also protects you against spells(pretty much the only thing which would damage this guy/gal)?

    You really are sold on the Lore of Heavens right now mate. Well it's not bad, and it probably works, but I think Life will almost always prove the more effective choice there.

    The main thing I like about Lore of Light is Timewarp, more specifically that it gives your elves within 12" (your entire army more or less) Movement 10, letting them march 20" the next turn taking up perfect positions to threaten an enemy gunline or anything really. Being overpriced at casting values don't really matter that much I think, because you will mostly be contesting against the enemy dispel attempt (as more dice are flying around in general) rather than scraping dice together just to get the spell off. I may be wrong here though, I try to be objective. Shadow should also be pretty awesome (it always is), and I will be sure to try it out. I guess after playing WoC and reading about all the awesome Lores in the book I want to try out all the ones I couldn't use with my WoC

    I like the idea also of a Lvl 2 with Silver wand and High Magic, giving you a Hero choice Wizard with 4 spells is kind of cool in a way...
    Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
    Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks

  5. #4
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    I'm not really all that hung up on Heavens right now, but I do think that it deserves a spot in the top 3 Lores in the new book: Life, Shadows, and Heavens. Shadows is probably still the best go-to lore for anybody, because of the debuffs and Okkams, and Life makes it into the list just for Regrowth and Dwellers, plus the miscast protection from Throne. Heavens gets overlooked, but I think that it's a tactical lore, much in the way that Slaanesh gets overlooked in favor of more damaging Nurgle and Tzeentch casters- since you're a Warrior, the analogy works.

    Life is definitely the more broken choice for High Elves. Being able to regen D6+1 15pt models is disgusting. Our guys are amazing, but they're pricey. You bring back enough with regrowth though, and that Lord has just paid for himself. I was merely suggesting heavens as an alternative for a L4 wizard if you go for Life on a smaller mage, which is wasteful. Only have Regrowth and Throne is pretty limited (they're the two you want) and only having a +2 to your casts means that nobody is going to let those spells through unless you manage to IF them.

    As for sticking any other items onto a Robe-challenger, it's sort of a waste. The Robe and the Pendant are the same class of item IIRC, so you can't have both on one guy, and you don't want to have this guy reliant on another character in base-base wielding the pendant, because you want to be able to jump him anywhere. I usually just go with a L2 Shadow caster (so he can initiate the jump himself), who has the added bonus of providing a +2 dispel to my army should my L4 flub up and run off crying over dead Elves.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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    I love using a level 4 with silver wand and life and that usually nets me flesh to stone (which is really awesome in conjunction with thrones and nasty when put on swordmasters!), thrones, regrowth, and dwellers! I think that those four spells are the backbone of life and are definitely a must. I then either take a level 2 with seer staff and use shadows and take withering and okkams. Both these combos have served me very well these past few weeks.

  7. #6
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    Personally if you want lore of light what I would do is take a lvl 4 with the book and shadows. Then take a lvl 2 with a seer staff and light take timewarp and something else probably minus 1 to hit with shooting or reroll all ones or sixes. Basically, when u need to time warp, nuke on ur lvl 2 he has two wounds so he'll survive. You only really need one timewarp usually for the game.

  8. #7
    Consumate professional Sir Theobold the Lame's Avatar
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    In the last edition of Unseen Lurker there was a tournament report where the dude was using a Lvl. 4 mage with Book of Hoeth and Lore of Shadows casting Mindrazor on a big (36) unit of spearelves which then proceeded to munch through enemy elites with their S9 attacks. because i'm not that way inclined i'd never thought of doing that- nasty!
    PLAN CLAN MAN!!

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  9. #8
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    The talisman of saphery which negates magical weapons in base contact is a Talisman while the Robe is an Enchanted item, so you can have them both on the same character. Guess it depends if you just want to keep the mage safe from enemies taking swings at the mage or if the mage also wants to be able to tie up enemy characters in challenges.

    Basically I like having an algorithm to follow when 'choosing' spells, though admittedly it will in the end depend somewhat on what the enemy brings.

    Roll first for the Life Archmage. Prioritize as follows:
    Regrowth
    Throne of Vines
    Flesh to Stone
    Dwellers Below
    Shield of Throns
    Awakening of the Wood
    (In my list I won't take Earth Blood since I run my archmage in a PG unit)

    Then, for my lvl 2 with Shadow and Seerstaff:

    Mindrazor (for Sea Guard)
    If Archmage has Dwellers, choose Enfeebling Foe
    If Else the enemy is Dwarves/Ogres choose Pit of Shades
    Else choose Miasma

    Something like that... perhaps the whole thing is too situational though?
    Last edited by Viktor; August 3rd, 2011 at 23:16.
    Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
    Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks

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    Nope, this is the exact spell selection that I run and I have found that it is very effective! I crushed a tomb kings army today because my white lions were T7 and had a 5+ ward save!

  11. #10
    Senior Member Allonairre's Avatar
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    Has anyone tried using Death with the Book of Hoeth? It seems to me that using the book really needs to use as many dice as possible and the Lore attribute of Death will enable you to get potentially do massive damage in a single turn.

    Personally my favourite lore is Shadow, the 2 Debuffs that are awesome for us are the toughness Debuff and the base spell. The toughness debuff makes our otherwise crappy S3 shooting very respectable. I don't really like the Strength debuff as it is RIP and will be dispelled often before it will be useful. The other 4 spells in the lore are all pretty reliable although I haven't had much success with pit of shades.

    But I tihnk with all the lores it is about making sure there is synergy with your army and that you know what it is that you are trying to accomplish with the spell lore that you are going with, arguably there are no really terrible lores (although I would have put Heavens near the bottom sorry Captain). Just that some have better synergy with your army than others. Magic has always been a way in which to plug the holes in your army you are foolish to rely on it but it can potentially win you the game.
    Cheers Allonairre

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