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Hi everyone! I am doing a commission job for buyer who wants a High Elves Ard Boyz army. My issue is that I am absolutely terrible at playing the game and list building. He kind of left it in my hands to put the army together. I figured I could turn this into a good discussion topic.
What makes a strong Ard Boyz List? Let’s see some sample list and discussion because I have know idea and I bet that none of you guys agree!
Last edited by sirkently; November 6th, 2011 at 02:35.
I really enjoy this kind of thing although I agree that its going to be different for everyone.
-Teclis, Probably with Life
-Caradryan to guard Teclis
Core I think that I would go for numbers here possibly
1 Unit of 50 Seaguard (Full Command with the banner of eternal flame). Bunker for Teclis, that can keep Teclis safe and contribute via shooting
MSU Archers or another smaller spearmen unit to fill out the necessary points of Core, I think I would use Archers but either would be fine
Special (this is where everyone will vary greatly)
Personally I would go with a very large unit of White-Lions, around 30 with Banner of Sorcery + General and BSB
I think their stubborn, and added protection against shooting makes them ideal as a horde.
I would use Swordmasters to support my 2 main units, probably 2 units of 15
I think that I would include a few Repeater Bolt Throwers to keep my enemy honest as well as some eagles to try and get any Warmachines
So The list would look a bit like this
Elf Prince (To be a more survivable general)
Vambraces of Defence
Armour of Caledor
(Heavy Armour and 4+ Ward from Rule book) or Banner of the World Dragon
Mage L2, (High Magic, Vaul's Unmaking,
Seer Staff of Saphery
48 Lothern Seaguard, Shields
Full Command, Banner of Eternal Flame 690
Full Command, Banner of Sorcery
14 Swordmasters (ran out of points for the second unit)
2 Bolt Throwers (really want more of these)
I think that I might be a bit over in points but I have done all the points from memory, I don't have the book with me anymore.
I have never played 'Ard Boyz although I have thought about what I would take before (under old rules), this may not be a great list as it is a bit balanced and 'Ard Boyz tend to be very one dimensional armies from what I have seen. If I were going to focus on a phase in isolation I would go all out Combat, dropping all the shooting and just taking spears, dropping the Bolt throwers for more Swordmasters. Teclis or his friend would have to use shadow magic to bounce him out of combats as quickly as possible because you really want the army to advance as a whole, Teclis taking life and the 2nd mage as Shadow with reduce strength, drop initiative.
I love the idea of a horde of sea guard, but I wonder how you would effectivly rerank them to shoot and then bring them back in for combat.
Also, for my horde unit I really like the idea of a horde of phoenix gaurd, very tough and throwing out a ton of attacks. It does seem that Teclis is a 100% must but I am never quite sure where to put him.
I would definitely be hesitant to design an ard boyz list around teclis since most of the tournaments that I have participated in have banned him. Also, what point level does ard boys compete at? I would design a list that compliments generic lord and hero combinations and if it turns out that you can use named characters then so much the better.
The list that Allonaire put together was a good one, however I think that it is way to character heavy. The benefit that HEs have is that they have awesome special units that can just devastate everything that they touch. Added to the fact that they are also so expensive means that more troops is greater than more characters.
Can you give us the point level that the commissioner would like? Or what Ard boys fantasy tournaments play?
Ard Boyz is a 3000 point list and anything goes. Basically its list hammer, all the nasty tricks that you can pull, go for it.
I think that most people would agree with you about the Phoenix guard being good for a horde. I decided on White Lions because they are capable of killing stuff better than Phoenix Guard. Gaining the extra rank of attacks for them is at S6 where Phoenix Guard are only S4.
The White Lions will attract more fire power which will help to keep the rest of the army alive. I think that a horde of Phoenix Guard will just be ignored. If I were to use a large unit of PG I would be narrow and deep, say 30 5x6 with the intention of winning through not dying + Static res and denying steadfast by being so deep. I would also give them BSB with Battle banner (On Barded Steed) and the Prince to get some kills. So they would have a static combat res of 5 + D6. If s##t hits the fan and you have a crappy round of combat the PG will probably keep steadfast +BSB and therefore be less vulnerable to a bad round of combat. White Lions don't need this safety as they are already stubborn.
In my list I would put Teclis with the Seaguard as they can stay out of combat and still contribute but will keep all traditional mage killers off his back. Lifeblood should keep Teclis and Caradryan up really well here if they do get caught up in a prolonged combat.
I agree with Furbyballer that the army is too character heavy and it was a trade off, I wrote it fairly fast, thinking it through as I went. Ideally I would include more elites dropping both the Prince and Caradryan. The point of the Prince was to be an alternative general to Teclis, this is of debatable value as chances are if you lose Teclis you will be in trouble anyway. The point of Caradryan is to keep Teclis safe from Monsters that have multiple wounds and try to hunt him down while the seaguard keeps him safe from units that try to get him.
As to switching formation with Seaguard, Swift Reform at ld10 ftw.
All right, here is my nastiest list that I could come up with. It is similar to Allonaire's list but with a sneaky trick!
Teclis with lore master of life
BSB with banner of world dragon, barded steed, shield, dragon armour
Lvl 2 mage with annulian crystal and high magic
The idea here being to just completely shut down the opponents magic phase with a possible +4 dispell dice, +5 to dispel, teclis's scroll, drain magic, and they have -1 dice to cast with
49 spearmen, FC, War banner
13 archers, level 2 mage here
30 White lions, FC, banner of sorcery, gaurdian has amulet of light (grants unit magical attacks) Horde
25 phoenix guard, FC, razor banner (everyone goes here so Teclis ends up in the second row and safe from everyone and with the banner of world dragon on this unit no spells can affect them and they all already have a 4+ ward save so people can't snipe teclis or dwellers him) 5X6 formation
2 repeater bolt throwers
Comes out to 2994
Last edited by Furbyballer; October 30th, 2011 at 19:43.
I like that mage build, taking High Magic for its base spell (5+ Ward) and Drain Magic is a good idea, cast them both on one dice reasonably safely. The crystal is a nice touch.
Why have you taken 49 Spears not 50, seems to me that that is where you intended to put the L2 mage originally, I think that I would give them the Magical resistance banner instead of the Warbanner but its not really a big issue.
A concern is the lack of flaming attacks in your army, it seems that you could benefit from the Banner of Eternal Flame, but I don't know where you would put it.
I do have a couple of rules worries as well but they may or may not cause an issue.
How does Banner of the World Dragon affect the life spells, if the PG unit are immune to the affects of Magic then it seems that Lore of Life is not the right Lore to use here as it may make Teclis immune to all his own spells. I am not sure if the banner affects friendly spells or not though but that's why I decided to leave it out in the end.
I am not sure about casting spells from the second rank of a unit, check up on that before you go with it because its a good idea but you don't want to be rules lawyered out of casting spells.
I was actually at the ard boys finals this year with my high elves. Didn't get far, i was trounced in the second round. Panic check on my phoenix guard, rolled 11. BSB reroll... rolled 11. They ran away, bounced through my swordmasters, who need to test for panic, and even with the BSB reroll THEY DIDN'T HOLD EITHER! so becaues of one panic test I lost my BSB, Teclis, support mage, PG block, and SM block. It was pretty much game over.
Anyway, back to the point. Including myself, there were only 2 High elves at the ard boys finals, my region anyway. and we faced each other in round 1, so i know about what he brought. I don't remember exactly what either of us had but I'll try to give brief recap. keep in mind numbers and items are a bit fuzzy, so i don't need/want anyone screaming back at me, "you don't have enough core, your have too many points in characters" and stuff like that. This is all a guess, from memory, from several months ago. Bear with me...
Support lvl 1 mage (shadow)
BSB (banner of the World dragon)
Noble (GW, talisman of saphery, some sort of cheap armor)
30 spears (banner of swiftness, one of the scenarios required you to have fast core units)
30 white lions (horde formation, banner of dicipline. Can't use general leadership, but they're stubborn 9 now.)
16-17 white lions
16-17 sword masters
10 PG bunker (teclis, BSB, banner of sorcery)
I used the same list through all rounds, and it was doing really well. Had I not rolled absolutely horribly in the second round I might have finished higher. Based on what I saw, i don't think i'd have won, but I'd have finished higher. Teclis and his unit are immune to magic, and with the 4++ shooting at the phoenix guard would be a bunch of wasted shots. cast dwellers and flesh to stone. That was about it. Horde unit chopped up all grades of things (horde of chaos chosen, horde of bloodletters) with little to no problem. Flesh to stone if they're in trouble. I was happy with how i did, especially since it was my first tournament ever.
lvl 2 support mage (high magic i think)
BSB (world dragon)
prince on steed (potion of strength, lance, some other funny buisness)
20-25 phoenix guard bunker (Banner of sorcery)
18 Dragon princes (with prince)
He relied on his archers to do the work. Lower toughness with teclis, fire 60 arrows at you. Against other elves, it was devistating. Against anything with armor, i don't imagine it did well. His giant tank unit of dragon princes probably served him well in his other battles, but i dwellered the heck out if it until it only had 2 guys left. would have won (by more, i think i had a minor victory) if i could have killed those last two and got the huge amount of points for them. we talked about it, and he took the same list the whole way up too.
If nothing else, the above shows that you can go two different ways and still get to the finals. from there, you'll be facing lots of demons and skaven. My suggestion is to talk to your guy and find out what kind of game he plays. does he like to engage and rip things up in close combat (my list) or does he like to magic you to death, then shoot hundreds of sharp sticks at you (his list). just food for thought, hope it helps people out.