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I see a lot of lists (esp. ~2,000 points, where I'm playing now) rolling L4 Archmages instead of Teclis; is this purely strategic or is it because Teclis is considered cheese and/or sometimes named characters aren't allowed in tourneys?
Teclis is hands down better. He is part of the Army Book so not cheesy really. He does however seem to me to be ridiculously cheap for what you get and has well over 100 points of gear and abilities.
I am really not a big fan of Teclis though, whether cheese or not too much of the game becomes about him. When you win (and you better with Teclis) it will be because of Teclis, whether true or not that will be your opponents point of view. Teclis is very good however and can make you lazy as a player because he can carry you through most mistakes. Including him costs more than just the points for Teclis, he needs a bodyguard that is more dedicated to protecting him and staying out of combat than a normal mage bodyguard.
Thanks for your thoughts.
One thing that people seem to forget about Teclis is that he isn't that much better than a L4. A l4 can't do everything that Teclis does at the same time, but he can still do a lot of it.
Teclis knows a whole Lore
True, but when do you ever really care about a whole Lore? A L4 can take a 10pt item and learn 5 spells, or a 35pt item and pick his spells.
Teclis gets Auto IF on Doubles
100pt Book will do that for a L4 as well. And you can still know most of the spells you want by including a L2 caster with the same lore, and rolling him first (drop any spells that you want for the L4 for the Lore Att)
Teclis ignores his first Miscast of each round
We have a staff that lets us ignore the first miscast of the game, and face it, most L4s are running Life and will have Throne active at any given time to ignore miscasts on a 2+
Finally, what we gain with a basic L4 can make just as much of a difference. For example, Teclis has no save of any kind. A L4 can grab the common item and get a 4+ wardsave for himself. Teclis is also only S/T2 (forget which atm) and is therefore very vulnerable to tests against that characteristic - a L4 has only a 50% chance of failing the same test (as opposed to Teclis's 66%)
If you're worried that your friends are getting worn out by you using Teclis to stomp all over them in the magic phase, you might want to tone down your entire magic phase, rather than just dropping Teclis. Magic is what High Elves do, it's very easy to go over-the-top with our phases. Just dial it back a bit and work back towards Teclis from there.
Not that I ever run Teclis (I'm of the generation when Special Characters could only be used with your opponent's permission and don't play with them or like to play against them even now) but I've got some counter arguments to this
1) Know 5 spells, therefore more chance of getting the ones you want
1) Still a chance of not getting one or two of the spells you want depending on your opponent's army
2) May need to take L2 on same lore to try and get spells you want on your L4 (although still risk of ending up with spell on L2 you wanted on your L4)
Book of Hoeth
1) IF on any roll of a double that meets the casting value
2) Should allow you to defintely get two, possibly three, spells off a turn unless you get screwed over by your Winds/Chanelling/Banner of Sorcery rolls
1) & 2) - See Silver Wand cons
3) Arch Mage is now very expensive
4) Arch Mage has no protection
Seerstaff of Saphery
1) Can build your list safe in the knowledge you have specific spells
1) You can end up with the wrong spells for the army you're facing (especially in a tournament) as you have to select your spells when you write your army list
Staff of Solidity
1) Ignore first miscast of game
1) One use only
2) Mage only knows four spells
Personally I'd rather have the option for Loremaster (still can't believe O&G can get Loremaster without taking a special character). And as far as I can see, the current metagame runs towards running Shadow on a High Elf L4 rather than Life.
I won't disagree with anything that you said, it's pretty obvious that Teclis is the better character, but the problem that most of my opponents have with him at least, are the things that I mentioned already, which a L4 can still do. He may not be able to do them as well as Teclis, and Teclis certainly has the edge in being able to do them better, but that still doesn't change the fact that High Elves are capable of some nasty little tricks in the magic phase.
Even players who are used to using Teclis are sometimes surprised by how capable our basic L4s can really be. There have been plenty of times that I've stricken Teclis from a list just to save myself some points for other units elsewhere - like Allonaire mentioned before me, including Teclis costs a lot more than his listed price, you have to invest in an armylist that will support him, and sometimes, that offsets his benefits altogether.
What Teclis brings is ridiculous reliability, moon staff of lileath gives him a boosted banner of sorcery meaning he should normally have a decent number of dice. The magic phase is random which is what balances it, the spells are random, the casting is random as is enemy dispelling, the dice generation is random. Every build you come up with can only manage one or perhaps two of these issues, generally spell generation. Teclis manages all of them relatively effectively. He has his drawbacks I will admit being T2 with no save is bad, this does mean that he will be hunted by as many mage hunters as your enemy can muster and you will have to make an effort to protect him more than a normal L4.
I would suggest that he is hands down the best mage in the game, he is not an instant win as I implied before but he does what he does very very cheaply.
Last edited by Allonairre; January 3rd, 2012 at 08:07.
the thing is with teclis u should be taking lore of life it is the best lore to take with him also u can buff out his T to T6 with flesh to stone and give him a 4+ reg as well as unit adn he will gain any wounds back he has lost, from personal experiance of using teclis he is 100% better than an archmage and on averge u will end up with 10-12 dice a magic phase
In my opinion...
Archmage W/ Book of Hoeth for results
Teclis for show, laughs and certainty.
A lot of people use Teclis because it destroys players dispelling and casting phases. I mean, he even gets his own unique Dispell Scroll, not to mention +5 to dispelling.
I have only used Teclis 6 times, and most games I haven't really enjoyed it... I like to place my mage within my swordmasters, just for the way it looks... So Teclis doesn't run well in that situation.
But everyone is different in how they find their ground.
High Elves \ Ogre Kingdoms \ Lizardmen \ Blood Angels \ Dark Angels \ Dark Elves
W100+/D20+/L100+ \ W17/D0/L2 \ W1/D2/L2 \ W3/D0/L3 \ W7/D2/L9 \ W1/D0/L1
i have played against Teclis many times and have no problem with him you have to remember that the elves will crontrol the magic phase with him but a player who knows he may be playing him can build a list which will dominate either the shooting or combat phase. Yes i know people will say high elves are awsome in combat aswell but i find the units that can fight realy well are either a) expensive or b) guarding Teclis. The onlyu problem i have with him is when people throw him out in a friendly tourney with mates who have only got about a dozen games under their belt together.
just remember for everything he does in the magic phase he a) can't shoot and b) dies in combat which with the new rules with you being able to pick him out when attacking is a lot easier to do. If you don't knw whether to take him or not do as my friend does and ask the people you are playing.
Im always 2 steps a head and one step behind you!
Your mind is a maze and only you have the map. (I lost mine years ago.)