An army ready for the battlefield (My new army)

[Karl Stahlfeld]

I just noticed that additional +1 armor idea for DP's and adapted that. Also, does M9 matter that much now with random charging? TBH, their protection against flaming attacks is important because it makes Lore of Metal useless against them (2+ ward!) Do you see them making a new high elf infantry unit/character (or bringing back an old one) instead of a monster? I think I'd prefer that.

[CaptainSarathai]

M9 will still be a big deal - it makes us the fastest cavalry in the game, which is important for things outside of charging as well, but also, it means that we have a massive 5" drop over the average infantry unit, which will help us get the charge more often than they do (we can risk charging from a few extra inches out).

I wouldn't mind seeing Dragon Armor go to a 4+ armor save, either because they claim that it's made of dragon-forged steel, or because it's a full suit of plate armor. As it stands, it's sort of stupid to have Heavy Armor and Dragon Armor, with one only adding a resistance to fire.

I doubt we'll see Griffon Riders, as the Empire are already rumored to be getting 'Demigriphs' (don't get me started) in their next book.

I also doubt that we're going to be getting any sort of new book for a long time. The High Elves aren't considered "broken" right now. The problem that we have is that everyone who doesn't actually play them is still out there whining about ASF and Teclis, and it makes people think that our army is still valid. Truthfully, we are, there are several armies who need a LOT more help than we do. Our book just needs the rewrite so that it can field a wider variety of lists.

As far as bringing back characters and new infantry - I doubt we'll see any new "elf" units. I do think that we're going to see a return of several characters. There's a possibility that they might put Eltharion the Blind back into the book, Imrik might make a comeback since we'll probably lose the DragonHorn and Starlance as magic items, we might get the Everqueen, but she'd be in contention with Teclis. We're certainly not losing Tyrion or Teclis, and I doubt that we're going to lose Caradryan or Korhil since they are relatively new models to our line. Also, if we get Monstrous Cavalry, it's going to be Lion Riders, so let's keep our fingers crossed that that doesn't happen. We could get Great Eagle Riders though, which would be sort of dumb unless they took away our actual Great Eagles.

[Karl Stahlfeld]

couple things capt:
1. what was the everqueen like? How would that infringe on Teclis? Was she another supercaster?
2. don't wood elves have eagle riders?

[BallsOfSteel]

Yeah, Wood Elves have eagle riders, and they make much better use of them than High Elves would.

Now that I look at the list of published army books, there are only four army books that are currently older than High Elves now: Empire, Dwarves, Wood Elves and Bretonnia (Bretonnia being the oldest). With Empire apparently getting their book next, it does stand to reason that we'll be in position to see something new. Heck, I honestly wouldn't mind if they just printed us a new book. We've got all the pretty new models between IoB and the new WLs, PGs and DPs. But who knows with GW... they're not exactly consistent on what schedule they have for updating books. Warriors of Chaos are getting their second update in 5 years after Empire (supposedly), and I think we all know that they don't need a new book...

Though, I can't tell you how much I don't want to see Lion Riders...

[CaptainSarathai]

I'm not sure if the Everqueen was ever really a character. The old 6th ed book is as far back as I go, so to be honest I've only played the army from two of our books. I can in right when they were updating the army, so I remember hearing a lot of the whining and about all the changes in the 6th ed book. Not sure if the Everqueen was around before me.
She'd almost definitely be a caster though. In the fluff, Teclis gets himself into close combat to save her. She can't fight - she's more of a spiritual figurehead than anything else. I could see her being an amazing Life caster, or having lots of Warrior-Priest type Boundspells, but honestly I think that's why we haven't seen her in the game. She doesn't serve a military role, and Maiden Guard are basically just Phoenix Guard who can talk but who haven't seen the future.

WoodElves have Warhawk Riders, which are better than Eagle Riders would be, just because Warhawks are cheaper and the statlines work together better. You can pick up a Warhawk Rider for 10pts less than an unmounted Eagle in the HE book.

I think that GW is all over the place when it comes to writing up the new books. Warriors certainly don't need an update, but I think that GW is just trying to exploit the WoC group, because they are currently a very overrepresented army. I'd like to see it stay that way, as they are a very solid beginner army, without being overpowered like Space Marines in 40k. If the Warriors truly needed a new book, we'd see the Lizardmen getting a new one as well (start collecting LM - they've got an amazing book right now, and they're not going get another one for a long time I'd bet).

This is just my opinion, but reason states that the older books should be redone first - they certainly need it (and not just because they're old). However, I doubt GW will redo them until the other armies have all been updated. Those armies aren't played anymore, so nobody collects them. GW will write their armybooks to have a huge power leap, and they're going to become tournament favorites, causing players to all rush out and buy whole new armies rather than updating old ones. Writing these books early in the edition and making that kind of power leaps means that subsequent armies need to either follow that curve, or they'll be seen as underpowered and less desirable. No, GW will release everything else in a balanced manner, and then "creep" these older armies up to be just a hair better than the others. Especially because each one has the opportunity to be a different playstyle (Brets go back to being the most overpowered Cav army in the game, Dwarfs have an unstoppable shooting phase, and Wood Elves suddenly become the only viable skirmish "fast infantry" army).

[Karl Stahlfeld]

I'd hate to see lion riders too BoS.

Capt, I'm afraid that GW is going to start the power creep, except that it woun't be a creep, it'll be a leap. again

[Karl Stahlfeld]

Anways, here's a 3k list I made using this army book idea, based off of a Chracian force:

Lvl4 Archmage with Loremaster of Hoeth, Book of Hoeth-365 (Life)

Noble, BSB with Huter of Chrace, Armor of Destiny-185
Lvl2 Mage with Honor of Saphery, Annulian Crystal-190 (Shadow- withering, mindrazor)
---------------
14 Archers-98 (x4) <392
49 Spearmen with Shields, Full Command-368
---------------
21 WL's with FC, Throwing Axes, Flaming Banner-355
20 PG's with FC, Banner of Sorcery-420
14 WL's with muscian, Throwing Axes-216 (x2) <432
3 Great Eagles-105
14 WL's with muscian-188
----------------------------------
Ok, let's start off with the characters. My Archmage is a Loremaster (guaranting both ToV and DB!) with a 4++ save (due to being the general) and all doubles are irresistable. Comparing to a current Lvl4, he gains Loremaster & 4++ in exchanges for costing a few more points (as well as giving up a lot more). My BSB has 4+ 4++ in combat, KB (makes it harder to challenge him) and is stubborn. He goes in the Spearmen unit making them very hard to get rid of. My Lvl2 has Shadow to play switcheroo with my general if necessary. The A. Crystal is there for more magical defense.
Core: 14 archers are deployed 5 wide, with a rank of 4 in the back. This allows them all to shoot, while keeping their frontage small. Also, it helps disguise where I might put my characers (wizards) as the are 4 opitions. The spear horde is my stubborn center of the battle line.
Special: The large unit of WL's is there for anti-monsters. It also will help hold one side of the battle line. The PG are also good against monsters (flaming attacks + 4++ save) and can hold the other side. BoS-no explanation needed. The two units of WL's are to help keep my battleline together. The big birds are there for anti artillery (especially mortars and the like- the like hordes of expensive T3 models!) The last unit of WL's is kind of a filler. I don't know what else I could do with the points, and I thought that another combat unit would be useful.
What do you think?

[CaptainSarathai]

I think...

PLAY-TEST IT!

There's no other way to figure out whether or not the list is fair. I'd say that for testing purposes you should knock it down to 2-2.5k, since that is the established "optimal size" for a game. Outside of those values, some armies become very limited or very powerful based on unit availability and character costs. But yes, definitely, test it out.
Wednesday I'm going to be taking my High Elves to the shop and I will try to play 2 games - one with the current book, and one with the adapted book. I'm curious to see how it goes as well. The first "standard" game is somewhat mandatory since I promised a friend a test game before a local tournament, but if I can squeeze in a second round, I'll certainly try.

[Karl Stahlfeld]

I think...

PLAY-TEST IT!

yeah..... you're kinda right capt.....

But, in my area the standard game is 3k. That's why I did it at that.

[throkkenn]

i dnt think any off the special characters bar alith anar need changing. Tyrion was good enough as he was and the way you changed him makes him almost un-killable. 4+ re-rollable ward and a 1+ armour and WS10 and T4?? Malaketh is T4 because of him being sealed inside his armour no elf should be T4 they are ment to be quick and fragile. But other than that I like what you are doing and I to agree no lion riders but when does GW listen to it customers???