An army ready for the battlefield (My new army)

[Karl Stahlfeld]

I believe Loremaster is once per army, and can't be taken with Teclis.
I could see the reason to limit the number of HoS's in the army, but I think maybe 2 would be better. That makes LoH a little more special.
The only problem with making it mandatory is that it would make it nearly impossible to play at a lower points level. Also, 75 might be a little high. I think it will probably end up at optional for 50 pts giving up 100 extra vps (total of 15.

[CaptainSarathai]

The ideas are all good, but the casting costs are way low. I'd say that if you wanted to hit it all with a wide brush, literally +3 to everything would be best, although still horribly unbalanced. Here's what I'm seeing:

High Magic

Lore Attribute: Drain Magic
- If at least one High Magic spell is cast during the magic phase, the High Elf player will dispel any spell cast during the opponent’s magic phase on any dispel attempt that contains a double.
Switch "player" to "mage". Only the mage who casts the spell can get the extra dispel power. Even still, this is a very powerful lore attribute, which is partially why I feel that the casting costs should go up a great deal more than what I'm advising below. Also, to keep in line with the earlier versions of the spell, I would say that enemy casting costs increase by +1 for each High Magic spell in play (so any spell which lasts "until the start of the next HE magic phase" or RiP)

0. Shield of Saphery 7+
Augment, 18" range. If successfully cast, the target unit gains a 5+ Ward save. The caster may choose to have this spell target all units within 18", increasing the casting value to 14.

1. Fury of Khaine
Magic Missile, cast at 3 levels
8+ 2D6, S4 hits. 24”
12+ 2D6, S5 hits 36”
16+ 3D6, S5 hits 48”
Compare to Fireball. I would make it start at S4 and stay there - 3D6 S5 hits is brutal for just a +4 above the others. Otherwise, drop the range - 18" D6 S5 hits, 24" 2D6 S5, 30" 3D6 S5. Finally, casting costs for this should start at 10, and increase by 2-3 each time. Probably 10, 12, 15.

2. Blessing of Aenarion 9+
Augment, 18” choose one friendly unit. During combat, they reroll all failed wounds and get +1S
There's not a spell in the core game that has the "reroll failed to wounds" as an effect. The closest is Harmonic Convergence, which only works on 1's and is still a 6+ to cast. This spell needs to be in the 12-14+ range. To keep things relatively calm, I'd ditch the +1S effect and just keep it at failed "to wound" rolls. Then I could solidly place this spell at a 12+ to cast, and go as low as 10+.

3. Curse of Arrow Attraction 11+
Hex, Nominate an enemy formation within 36” All ranged attacks against that formation reroll all failed hits and get +1 to wound. Also, the target must reroll all successful saves against ranged attacks.
Add "armor" after "all". You don't want them rerolling Wardsaves, that's a useless addition that just adds casting value to the spell. Give missiles a +1 to hit against the target, and a +1 to wound, and make them reroll armor saves. Otherwise, rather than have this affect a target enemy unit, have it affect a single friendly unit. Also, drop the range on this or add a boosted version - 24" should be fine, 36" is actually farther than any of our weapons can reach with the exception of the RBT.

4. Vaul’s Unmaking 12+
Hex, Target enemy unit within 24" must show all of their magic items. The caster chooses one of the items to be destroyed for the remainder of the game. Magical weapons, armor, shields etc. become mundane versions of the same weapon.
Have the players roll a D6. If the caster rolls higher, the item is destroyed. That, or only destroy it on a 4+. Outright item-killing on a 12+ spell is brutal. Especially considering how few magic items there are in the game now. Otherwise, the casting value on this needs to go way up.

5. Sapherian Training 13+
Remains in Play, self. The caster may reroll all rolls of 1 when casting or dispelling. These dice may not create irresistible force or a miscast. Also, this boosts the other spells in High Magic as well:
Shield of Saphery now gives a 4++
Fury of Khaine gets +1S
Blessing of Aenarion also grants +1T
Curse of Arrow Attraction also grants +1 to hit.
Vaul’s Unmaking destroys D3-1 items instead of 1.
Flames of the Phoenix starts at S4
This is a pretty serious Throne, and an unimaginative copy of it. I'd say that it lasts until the start of their next magic phase, doesn't work on Dispel attempts, and change it so that it can cause Miscast/IF situations. Fury of Khaine getting +1S up to S6 is nasty. Only keep the +1 if you drop all of the boosted levels of FoK down to S4. Vaul's Unmaking destroying D3+1 is likewise brutal, I'd just say that it now destroys 1 item automatically rather than rolling for it. Curse is fine, although it might be good to change Curse to be an augment to friendlies, and then have Sapherian Training boost the spell to affect all friendly units within 12" inches. Flames starting at S4 is fair.

6. Flames of the Phoenix 14+
Remains in Play, 24"
Each model in the target unit takes a S3, Flaming hit immediately, with no ward saves allowed. The strength of the attack is increased by 1 on each subsequent turn that the spell remains in play. If they are Ethereal, it instead wounds on a 2+.
I like this spell, but the casting value needs to go up to 16. Hitting every model in a unit with a S3 hit is brutal, your first casting will kill off 50% of most Horde units, and the fact that you can boost it to S4 is just sick. I would drop the part about the models being Ethereal, as well as the part about not allowing Wardsaves. Change it so that models with the Undead, Daemon, Forest Spirit, or Ethereal special rules may not take Wardsaves against Flames of the Phoenix - this has the effect of making it an awesome Daemon killer.

My proposed spell lore, building from what you have already:

Lore Attribute: Drain Magic
For every High Magic in play at the start of the opponent's magic phase (either Augment or Remains in Play), increase the casting costs of their spells by +1.

0. Shield of Saphery, 8+
Augment, 18" range. Target unit gains a 5+ wardsave until the start of the next friendly magic phase. The caster may choose to have this spell affect all units within 18", increasing the casting value to 15+

1. Fury of Khaine (before rolling, declare which level you will cast at)
18" D6 S4 hits, 8+
24" 2D6 S4 hits, 10+
30" 3D6 S4 hits, 14+
All hits from Fury of Khaine are Flaming attacks

2. Curse of Arrow Attraction, 10+
Choose a target enemy unit within 24". Until the start of the next friendly magic phase, any missile weapons targeted at this unit have a +1 on their 'To Hit' rolls.


3. Courage of Aenarion, 12+
Target friendly unit within 18" rerolls all failed 'To Wound' rolls until the start of the next friendly magic phase.

4. Blessing of Isha, 14+
Remains in Play. The Mage may reroll any Powerdice results of a '1', and High Magic spells cast by this mage gain the following additional effects:
Shield of Saphery now grants a 4+ wardsave
Fury of Khain gains +1S
Curse of Arrow Attraction now grants a +1 to Wound
Courage of Aenarion grants +1S
Vauls Unmaking now automatically destroys 1 item, instead of rolling
Flames of the Phoenix now starts at S4

5. Vaul's Unmaking, 16+
Target one enemy regiment or character within 12". The target must reveal any magic items in it's possession, and the caster chooses one to attempt to destroy. Both players roll a D6. If the caster rolls higher than the opponent, the item is destroyed for the remainder of the game (magic weapons become a mundane weapon of the same type)

6. Flames of the Phoenix, 18+
Remains in Play. Choose a unit within 18". At the start of every following magic phase (yours and your opponent's) every model in the unit suffers a S3 Flaming attack. If the spell is in play at the start of the next magic phase, increase the strength of the hit by 1 point, so S4, then S5, and so on. Armor saves may be taken as normal against these attacks. Models with the Undead, Daemon, Forest Spirit, or Ethereal special rule may not take Wardsaves against wounds caused by Flames of the Phoenix.
I went against my judgement on this one and made this spell pretty powerful, in order to validate a higher casting cost than you see for Vaul's Unmaking. While the S3 hit doesn't occur in your own magic phase when you cast it, it will still happen before any combats on the opponent's turn. If they let it go, it will immediately become an S4 hit on your own phase, and then back to them, with it reaching S5. This makes them rush to dispel it, and with an 18+ to cast, that won't be easy.

So there you have it, my take on the Lore based on what you gave me. I know that some of the spells take a step back, but remember - it's better to have a fan list that's underpowered, than one that is edging on being too effective.

[Karl Stahlfeld]

Thanks for the feedback! However, as High Elves are the masters of magic and High Magic is supposed to be 'true magic' and all the others are only fragments, it should be more powerful (maybe only slightly admitedly). I wouldn't see most competitive lists taking the redone list of Life any day of the week. Anyways, I could see all the casting values going up by around 2. Here is my redone magic:

LA: Drain Magic: For every High Magic in play at the start of the opponent's magic phase (either Augment or Remains in Play), increase the casting costs of their spells by +1. (I like your idea)

0. Shield of Saphery, 8+
Augment, 18" range. Target unit gains a 5+ wardsave until the start of the next friendly magic phase. The caster may choose to have this spell affect all units within 18", increasing the casting value to 15+ (8+ for a for a 5++ is fair)

1. Fury of Khaine (before rolling, declare which level you will cast at)
12" D6 S4 hits, 7+
24" 2D6 S4 hits, 10+
36" 3D6 S4 hits, 15+
I prefer a greater difference in their ranges between the different casting levels

2. Curse of Arrow Attraction, 10+
Choose a target enemy unit within 24". Until the start of the next friendly magic phase, any unit that shoots bows or longbows targeted at this unit reroll failed 'to hit' rolls and get +1 to hit.
We are dealing with S3 bows after all. I add the 'bows or longbows' so the PoA couldn't reroll.

3. Blessing of Aenarion, 13+
Target friendly unit within 18" rerolls all failed 'To Wound' rolls and gets +1S until the start of the next friendly magic phase.

4. Vaul's Unmaking, 14+
Target one enemy regiment or character within 12". The target must reveal any magic items in it's possession, and the caster chooses one to destroy one of them for the rest of the game. (magic weapons and armor become a mundane weapon of the same type)
It's remaining automatic. It only needs a 12+ right now, so I'm making it less effective then right now anyways...

5. Sapherian Training, 16+
Remains in Play. The Mage may reroll any Powerdice results of a '1', and High Magic spells cast by this mage gain the following additional effects: (I should not that the rerolling powerdice was what I was aiming at originally- thanks for the wording help Capt)
Shield of Saphery now grants a 4+ wardsave
Fury of Khain gains +1S
Curse of Arrow Attraction now grants a +1 to Wound
Blessing of Aenarion grants rerolling failed 'to hits' as well
Vauls Unmaking now sees all units within 12"
Flames of the Phoenix now starts at S4

6. Flames of the Phoenix, 18+
Remains in Play. Choose a unit within 18". At the start of every following magic phase (yours and your opponent's) every model in the unit suffers a S3 Flaming attack. If the spell is in play at the start of the next magic phase, increase the strength of the hit by 1 point, so S4, then S5, and so on. Armor saves may be taken as normal against these attacks. Models with the Undead, Daemon, Forest Spirit, or Ethereal special rule may not take Wardsaves against wounds caused by Flames of the Phoenix. Note: any Character (not champions) gets a 4+ Look Out Sir! roll if they are in a unit of the same troop type.
The LOS is there to seperate it from Dwellers etc. However, since it is nowhere near as deadly as Dwellers, maybe I should reduce the cost a little.

What do you think? Did I tone it down enough?

[CaptainSarathai]

That works. It's a lot better now. I still have a problem with Curse of Arrow Attraction only because you are eventually giving them +1 to Wound, making the bows essentially S4 against a lot of people. A bow wounding Warriors on a 4+ scares the hell out of them, trust me, I've deal with Asrai Archery before - it's not the fact that it modifies my save, I'd prefer to be hit with S3 AP darkelf crossbows any day of the week. It's the fact that they can cause so many wounds so easily, that they will overrun my armor saves anyways. Plus, for HE, +1 to Hit and Rerolls are sort of redundant. It makes use BS5 if I recall, it means that we hit people on 2's without modifiers, and we reroll that. We quickly end up with the most accurate archery in the game, provided we can cast the spell for it. Add in that we can boost it to wound on a 4+ and we're back to making gunline-elves viable again.

The same is true of Blessing of Aenarion. Getting our Elves up to S4 is a bad, bad thing. It's not natural, and it will wreck people. I don't remember if we ended up keeping ASF on our Spears, but they could potentially be rerolling everything but armor saves - and at S4, they're going to tear the guts out of whatever they hit. Besides, you can get the exact same effect with Shadows for a much lower casting cost.

[Karl Stahlfeld]

For Curse of Arrow Attraction, you last sentence is what I'm trying to do: "making gunline-elves viable again."
Yes, it makes our archers super powerful, but against one unit! I guess that kind of destroys deathstar lists, but against almost anything else? Also, to make it work in say, 2,000 pt games, you'd need so many archers/LSG to make it worthwhile that you wouldn't have ponts to get too many decent combat units, so the rest of the enemy units would have quite a few juicy targets to choose from when the time came.

For BoA, 2 things:
A. you hit the nail on the head when you said we can do the same thing in Shadow for cheaper... IMO that makes it just fine.
B. Since our spears don't keep SoA the rerolls only come in on the boosted version. This means that you have to string together a bunch of spells (keeping us somewhat reliant on our magic phase).

However, I do agree that the +1 to hit and rerolls to hit are redundant. Originally it will be +1 to hit and +1 to wound, while the boosted version forces armor saves to be rerolled. (at the same casting value)

How does this look now?

[Karl Stahlfeld]

made some fairly major changes..... new list is like this:

notable one is giving only LSG Martial Prowess. I changed Spearmen into Pikemen and I essentially took the rules from WotR and put it on them. Nobody gets charge bonus when charging in the front, however they never get any charge bonus and only get 30 attacks (rather than 5 on the charge since pikes don't give them any bonuses.... makes them even more defensive.

I also tried to narrow down the magical item selection.

Like the update?

High Elf Special Rules

Valor of Ages - Against Dark Elves, High Elf units with this rule may Re-roll any failed Psychology tests.
Martial Prowess - Elves with this rule who are on foot with spears always fight in one additional rank. Also, Elves armed with missile weapons may fire with the first 3 ranks rather than 2.
Pikes (Instead of MP)- Pikes follow the same rules as Spears with the following additions- When a unit of Pikes gets charged to the front the charging unit never gets any bonuses for charging (including, but not limited to Charge Bonus, Impact Hits, extra strength from weapons such as lances etc). In addition, when they did not charge Pikes allow models to give support in two additional ranks rather than one.
Speed of Asuryan- Unchanged from current book, but only on certain elite units or characters.
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Lords

Prince - stats as book - 100
Special Rules: VoA, SoA
Weapons and Armor: HW

Weapons (one choice only)
Lance - 4pts
Spear - 2pts
Great Weapon - 8pts
Halberd - 6pts
Additional Hand Weapon - 4pts

Armor (once choice only)
Light Armor - 4pts
Heavy Armor - 6pts
Dragon Plate Armor - 8pts (4+ armor save 2++ against flaming attacks)

Mount (one choice only)
Elven Steed - 16pts
-- which may have Ithilmar Barding for +3pts
Great Eagle - 40pts
Griffon - 150pts
Sun Dragon - 225pts
Star Dragon - 350pts

Additional Equipment:
Shield - 3pts
Longbow - 6pts

Magic Items
Any, up to a total of - 100pts

Honors
One, no points limit
Honors system carried directly from 6th edition.

Archmage - stats as book 190pts
Special Rules: VoA,
Weapons and Armor: HW
L3 Wizard may choose from High Magic or any 8 Lores from the Core Book.

Upgrade to L4: 35pts

Mount (one choice only):
Elven Steed - 16pts
-- which may have Ithilmar Barding for +3pts
Great Eagle - 40pts
Griffon - 150pts
Sun Dragon - 225pts
Star Dragon - 350pts

Magic Items
Any, up to - 100pts

Honors
Any one, no points limit
--------------------

Heroes

Noble - stats as book - 70pts
Special Rules: VoA, SoA
Weapons and Armor: HW

Weapons (one choice only)
Lance - 3pts
Spear - 1pts
Great Weapon - 7pts
Halberd - 5pts
Additional Hand Weapon - 3pts

Armor (once choice only)
Light Armor - 3pts
Heavy Armor - 5pts
Dragon Plate Armor - 7pts

Mount (one choice only)
Elven Steed - 14pts
-- which may have Ithilmar Barding for +2pts
Great Eagle - 40pts
Griffon - 150pts

Additional Equipment:
Shield - 2pts
Longbow - 4pts

Magic Items
Any, up to a total of - 50pts

Honors
One, no points limit

May be upgraded to BSB for 25pts, may carry a magic banner with no points limit, but if he does, he may not carry any other magic items

Mage - stats as book - 85pts
Special Rules - VoA,
Weapons and Armor - HW
Upgrade to L2 - 35pts

Mount (one choice only)
Elven Steed - 14pts
-- which may have Ithilmar Barding for +2pts
Great Eagle - 40pts
Griffon - 150pts

Magic Items
Any, up to a total of - 50pts

Honors
One, no points limit

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Core
Archers - stats as book - 7pts
Special Rules: VoA, MP
Weapons & Armor: HW, Longbow
Unit Size: 10+

Command:
Upgrade to Hawkeye - 8pts
Upgrade to Musician - 4pts
Upgrade to Standard Bearer - 8pts

Additional Equipment:
May wear LA - 1pt/model

Pikemen - stats as book - 6pts
Special Rules: VoA, MP
Weapons and Armor: LA, HW, Pikes
Unit Size: 10+

Command:
Upgrade to Sentinel - 8pts
Upgrade to Musician - 4pts
Upgrade to SB - 8pts

Additional Equipment:
May carry Shields - 1pt/model

Lothern Sea Guard - stats as book - 8pts
Special Rules: VoA, MP,
Weapons and Armor: LA, Shield, HW, Bow
Unit Size: 10+

Command:
Upgrade to Sea Master - 8pts
Upgrade to Musician - 4pts
Upgrade to SB - 8pts

Additional Equipment:
May carry Spears - 1pt/model

Silver Helms - stats as book - 16pts/model
Special Rules: VoA,
Weapons and Armor: HA, HW, Lance, Shield
Mount: Elven Steed
Unit Size: 5+

Command:
Upgrade to High Helm - 10pts
Upgrade to Musician - 5pts
Upgrade to SB - 10pts

Additional Equipment:
May have Ithilmar Barding for +2pts/model
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Special

Swordmasters - stats as book - 16pts/model
Special Rules: VoA, SoA
Tide of Whirling Blades: All attacks made in close combat against a model with this rule suffer a -1 penalty To Hit, in addition to any other modifiers. In addition, all ranged attacks that use BS targeted at a unit of Sword Masters with this rule also suffer a -1 to hit in addition to other modifiers.
Weapons and Armor: HA, GW, HW
Unit Size: 5+

Command:
Upgrade to Bladelord: 12pts
--may carry one magic item worth up to 25pts
Musician: 6pts
Upgrade to Standard Bearer: 12pts Magic Banner removed, see Honors section later

White Lions - stats as book - 13pts/model
Special Rules: VoA, Stubborn, Woodsman
Weapons and Armor: HA, Lion Cloak, Woodsman’s Axe, HW
Unit Size 10+

Command:
Upgrade to Guardian: 12pts
--may carry one magic item worth up to 25pts
Korhil-125
Musician: 6pts
Upgrade to Standard Bearer: 12pts Magic Banner removed, see Honors section late
Woodsman’s Axe: +2 strength

Additional Equipment
May carry Throwing Axes for +1pt/model

Lion Cloaks - grant a +1 to armor save, increased to +2 against attacks in the shooting phase.

Shadow Warriors - stats as book - 9pts
Special Rules: VoA, , Scouts, Skirmishers Nargarythe Hatred
Weapons and Armor: LA, HW, Bow

Command:
Upgrade to Shadow Walker: 6pts

Additional Equipment:
may choose the following weapons: AddHWs +1pt/model
may swap bows for Longbows at +1pt/model


Ellyrian Reavers - stats as book - 14pts
Special Rules: VoA, Fast Cavalry
Weapons and Armor: LA, Bow, HW
Mount: Elven Steed
Unit Size: 5+

Command:
Upgrade to Harbinger: 10pts
Upgrade to Musician: 5pts
Upgrade to Standard Bearer: 10pts

Additional Equipment:
May have Spears for +1pt/model
Steeds may have Ithilmar Barding for +2pts/model current

Tirannoc Chariot - stats as book - 75pts
Special Rules: VoA, Chariot
Weapons and Armor: 5+ save, crew have Spears and HWs
Mounts: Chariot is pulled by 2 Elven Steeds
*Note 1-2 Tirannoc Chariots may be taken as a single unit choice
Unit Size: 1 Chariot model counts as a single unit

Great Eagle - stats as book - 35pts
Special Rules: Fly, Stomp
Weapons: razor sharp beaks and talons (counts as HW)
*Note, 2 GEs may be taken as a single unit choice
Unit Size: 1

Dragon Princes - stats as book - 28pts
Special Rules: VoA, SoA, Fear, Devastating Charge
Weapons and Armor: Dragon Plate Armor, Shield, Dragon Lance, HW
Mount: Elven Steed with Ithilmar Barding
Unit Size: 5+

Command:
Upgrade to Drake Master: 20pts
--may carry one magic item worth up to 25pts
Upgrade to Musician: 10pts
Upgrade to Standard Bearer: 20pts Removed banner option, see Honors later

Dragon Lance - +3S and Flaming Attacks on the turn they charge.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Rare Units

Drake Riders-65pts
M WS BS S T W I A LD
Rider 5 6 4 4 3 1 6 2 9
Drake 8 5 0 5 4 3 5 3 5
Equipment Dragon Plate Armor, Dragon Lance, Shield
Special Rules Devastating Charge (rider) D3 impact hits (Drake), SoA (Rider), Terror
Drake Scales- 5+ scaly skin that can be combined with armor as normal (for a 1+ save in total). In addition, they grant a 5+ ward save

Unit Size 3+

Command:
Upgrade to Drake Lord: 20pts
-may carry one magical item worth up to 25pts
Upgrade to Musician: 10pts
Upgrade to Standard Bearer-20pts
-may carry one magical standard worth up to 50pts

Phoenix of Asuryan-250pts
M WS BS S T W I A LD
2 6 6 4 4 4 5 4 10
Single Model
Fly, Flaming Attacks, Unbreakable, Terror 4+ Ward
Fiery Rebirth- When the Phoenix of Asuryan is killed, place a marker where it was on the table. At the start of each friendly turn roll a D6. On the roll of a 6, put the Phoenix of Asuryan back on the table where the marker was (if there is not room, nearest possible position at least 1" away from enemy units). If a 6 is not rolled, instead place another marker upon the first. Roll again at the start of each friendly turn, adding +1 for each additional marker upon the first (to a maximum of needing a 3+).
Fiery Rage- Each friendly shooting phase the Phoenix may make a shooting attack with one of the following profiles: (both have flaming attacks)
1. Range 48” S10 D6 wounds - No penalty for moving and shooting
2. Range 4D6” S3 Place the small round template in base contact with the Phoenix’s frontal base. Nominate a direction fully with the Phoenix’s arc of sight and roll 4D6” to see how far it moves. All models touched by the template (friendly and enemy) suffer a S3 hit.
-In additon one PoA in the army may be upgraded to know Flames of the Phoenix as a Bound Spell lvl4 for 25 points.


Phoenix Guard - other stats as book - 16pts/model -
Special Rules: VoA, SoA, Immune to Psychology, 4+ Ward save, Flaming Attacks, Fear
Weapons and Armor: HA, Halberds, HWs
Unit Size: 5+

Command:
Upgrade to Keeper of the Flame: 12pts
-- may carry one magic item worth up to 25pts
Caradryan-175(if they take Caradryan they become Unbreakable, though they may be joined by other characters and still retain Unbreakable)
Upgrade to Musician: 6pts
Upgrade to Standard Bearer: 12pts
--may carry magic standard worth up to 50pts

White Lion Chariot - stats as book - 105pts
Special Rules: Chariot, VoA, Woodsman’s Axe, Fear, Impact Hits D6+2
Weapons and Armor: 4+ save, crew carry Woodsman’s Axe
Mounts: Pulled by 2 White Lions
Woodsman’s Axe- +2 strength
Unit Size: 1

Repeater Bolt Thrower - stats as book - 60pts
Special Rules: VoA, Volley Shot
Weapons and Armor: Crew wear LA and carry HWs
*Note, 2 RBTs may be taken as a single unit choice
Unit Size: 1

-------------------------------------
Honors
Characters may have no more than a single honor (with the exception of Pure of Heart), but each honor may be repeated multiple times in a single army unless otherwise noted. May not be given to named characters (including PoH).

Pure of Heart - 0pts (only general can take it and must take it)
This honor must be given to the army general in addition to any other honor he might have. The character gains a 4+ ward save. If this character is killed, he is worth an additional 100 VPs.
<< author's note- in games of undrr 1500 points it is recommended either to not use this honor or reduce it to 5++ and 50 VPs

Hunter of Chrace - 40pts
Character is equipped with a Lion Cloak, Woodsman’s Axe (may not carry any magic weapons), and gains the Killing Blow, Forest Strider, and Stubborn special rules. Also, he may ride a Lion Chariot for 100pts. In addition, 1 unit of White Lions may carry a magic banner worth up to 50pts

Bladeking of Hoeth - 40pts
Character is equipped with a Great Weapon (may not carry any magic weapons) and gains the Magical Attacks and Tide of Whirling Blades special rules. Also, he gets +1 to hit. In addition, 1 unit of Sword Masters may carry a magic banner worth up to 50pts.

Lord of Caledor - 35pts
Character is equipped with Dragon Plate Armor, a Dragon Lance, and a shield (may not carry any magic weapons or armor), and gains the Devastating Charge and Fear special rules. The character must purchase either an Elven Steed with Ithilmar Barding, a Drake for 60pts, a Sun Dragon, or a Star Dragon. In addition, 1 unit of Dragon Princes may carry a magic banner worth up to 50pts.

Rider of Ellyria - 30pts
Character is mounted on an Elven Steed with Ithilmar Barding, and gains the Fast Cavalry special rule (may not have better than a 4+ armor save), and automatically passes all Dangerous Terrain checks.

Charioteer of Tirannoc – 95pts
Character is mounted on a Tirannoc Chariot (replaces one of the crew) and one unit of Tirannoc Chariots may be taken as a Core choice rather than Special.

Scion of Nagaryth - 20pts
Character gains the Nargarythe Hatred, Scout, and Strider special rules, and may deploy with a unit of Shadow Warriors.

Captain of Lothern - 40pts
The character, and one unit of Seaguard, gains the Ambushers special rule. In addition, one unit of Lothern Sea Guard may carry a banner worth up to 25pts.

Loremaster of Hoeth - 50pts one character only (must be Lvl4 mage)
The character knows all the spells from their chosen lore.

Honor of Saphery - 30pts
the character becomes a Lvl1 Mage who may cast in armor and picks spells from the Lore of High Magic. If the character is already a Mage, they may instead choose their spells instead of rolling for them from any lore in the BRB or High Magic.
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Magic Items
Magic Weapons
Sword of Hoeth –60 pt
Reaver Bow – 40 pt

Magic Armor
Helm of Fortune –35 pt
Armor of Caledor –25 pt

Talismans
Vambraces of Defense– 55 pt
Talisman of Saphery– 35 pt

Arcane Items
Book of Hoeth –100 pt
Annulian Crystal –40 pt
Silver Wand – 10pt

Enchanted Items
Folariath's Robe –45 pt
Ring of Corin – 30pt
Amulet of Light –15 pt

Magic Standards
Banner of the World Dragon – 60 pt
Banner of Sorcery –50 pt

Redone Named Characters?

Tyrion- M5, WS10, BS7, S4, T3, W4, I 10, A5, Ld10-400pts
Malhandir- (as is) 25pts –If on Malhandir, he gains the Devastating Charge special rule
VoA, SoA
Defender of Uluthan (as is)
Sunfang (as is)
Dragon Armor of Aenarion (as is)
Heart of Avelorn- MR2, Reroll Ward saves, immune to Killing Blow
>Made him WS10, +1attack (greatest warrior in world supposedly) and redone HoA is to make him not so easy to kill. Option to ride Malhandir means he can be used w/o DP/SH support
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Teclis- 525 points and as is, but nobody can take Loremaster of Hoeth honor > Not unstoppable as he's too easy to kill. Essentially, he took the LoH honor, that's why nobody else can take it. [can take High for free and get +1 to cast and dispell?]
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Altih Anar- rules as is, but a hero choice and around 175-200pts. > he needs to be a hero. Definitely not worth the cost we pay for him.
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Eltharion- 2 changes-
Fangsword grants +2 strength after 1st turn
Cheaper (maybe around 225, with 150 for Stormwing)
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Korhil/Caradryan are shown above as unit upgrades. Korhil allows his unit to take a banner up to 50pts, and Caradryan allows his unit to take any standard, regardless of how many points it is.


New High Magic
Lore Attribute: Drain Magic
- For every High Magic spell in play during the start of your opponent’s magic phase subtract 1 from the opponent’s casting total on each spell cast.

0. Shield of Saphery 8+
Augment, 18" range. If successfully cast, the target unit gains a 5+ Ward save. The caster may choose to have this spell target all units within 18", increasing the casting value to 16+.

1. Fury of Khaine
Magic Missile, cast at 3 levels
8+ 2D6, S4 hits. 18”
11+ 2D6, S4 hits 24”
14+ 3D6, S4 hits 30”

2. Blessing of Aenarion 10+
Augment, 18” choose one friendly unit. During combat, they reroll all failed hits and get +1S


3. Curse of Arrow Attraction 10+
Hex, Nominate an enemy formation within 30” All ranged attacks against that formation reroll all failed hits and wounds.

4. Vaul’s Unmaking 13+**
Hex, Target enemy unit within 18" must show all of their magic items. The caster chooses one of the items to be destroyed for the remainder of the game. Magical weapons, armor, shields etc. become mundane versions of the same weapon.

5. Sapherian Training, 15+
Remains in Play. The Mage may reroll any Power dice results of a '1', and High Magic spells cast by this mage that are cast while this is in play gain the following additional effects:
Shield of Saphery now grants a 4+ ward save
Fury of Khaine gains +1S
Curse of Arrow Attraction now forces the target to reroll successful armor saves against ranged attacks.
Blessing of Aenarion grants rerolling failed 'to wounds’ as well
Vaul’s Unmaking now sees all units’ magical items within 18"
Flames of the Phoenix now starts at S4

6. Flames of the Phoenix 16+
Remains in Play, 24"
Each model in the target unit takes a S3, Flaming hit immediately. The strength of the attack is increased by 1 on each subsequent turn that the spell remains in play. (During the opponent’s turn, it takes place at the end of the turn rather than the beginning.) Models with the Undead, Daemon, Forest Spirit or Ethereal special rules may not take Ward saves against wounds caused by Flames of the Phoenix.

**note that Vaul’s Unmaking does not contribute to Drain Magic.
20pts to take High Magic with a +1 to casting/dispelling? << too powerful? should I just cut it off?

[TimA]

Just thinking on the idea of a Phoenix as a monster. What if its a critter with the same stat line as the great eagle but with the following additions:

1.attacks are flaming and Phoenix is immune to fire
2. When it dies it explodes - center the large circle template on the model. All touched by the template take a S3 flaming hit.
3. After explosion is resolved roll d6. 1-3 Phoenix has left this battle and will not return. 4-5 Phoenix returns with starting wounds 6 Phoenix returns with starting wounds and place a small template over the Phoenix. All models touched by this template takes a S2 flaming hit

This makes them the ultimate suicide bomber. I would think 120-150 points would be fair

[Karl Stahlfeld]

I have it to be our 'other artillery' model. Fluff-wise we're not going to get other artillery than a bolt thrower so this was my solution. Your points are way to pricy for a bunch of S3 and S2 hits....... with GE stats it'd be around 75 maybe.

[Allonairre]

Personally I am not a fan of Pikes in an elf army.

Just doesn't quite fit my image of them. Other than that it looks alright. Not certain about some of the units, do Drake Riders really need a ward? High Magic is giving them that all the time anyway.

Personally I don't know that the lore is good enough for people to take over Life. It offers a bit of everything but most of the spells aren't any better than before just cost more and have the LA attached automatically.

I understand about Alith Anar but there is no way you can justify him as a hero. His Bow is insane with BS7 or even 6, His stone of midnight is very powerful on a hero and he can scout and has a 4++. Sure he is pants in combat but again your High Magic (probably choosing spells) can buff him to strength 5 and address some of that issue. His wargear alone costs more than 200 points, he just doesn't work anything but a custom built army. However with your rules you could basically not deploy at the start of the game, give all your characters Scion of Nagarythe or Captain of Lothern and scout them all moving your core on as ambushers. Not saying it would work but it might be interesting, if you could do it right.

[Karl Stahlfeld]

I thought of Spears (Pikes) as our defensive troops so I tried to make them even more defensive. It also made the Seaguard the only ones with MP which makes sense since they're professional troops.

DR's 5++ might go away now that MCav can give their toughness to the riders. When I gave that to them they were 65pt T3 models. It's not off yet, but pretty close.

I'm not sure about Alith. Maybe a lord at 225?

For High Magic, maybe:
SoS a 7+/14+ to cast
6" longer ranges on FoK
BoA can be bossted to all friendly units within 12" on a 16+
FotP happens at the beginning of an opponent's phase?