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Hello everyone. I'm just starting Warhammer and am thinking of going with High Elves. I was going to do Lizardmen, but I'm currently working on my Tyranids in 40k, and didn't want to be working on two beastly/creature armies at once. I also play Eldar in 40k and I really enjoy them, so High Elves are either a painfully obvious WFB choice for me, or a natural progression from one game to the next, depending on how you look at it.
I do have some concerns, though. No matter what army I play or what game its in, I try to have a balanced force that can adapt to the battle as it unfolds. I don't mean to say that I want a the ultimately versatile army like Empire or Space Marines, but just a force that I can play with many times without using the same tactics over and over.
The problem is that I keep hearing everyone praising HE cavalry and magic, and decrying everything else about them (aside from Bolt Throwers, of course). Is this justified, or simply a case of players overexaggerating the weaknesses of certain units (as seems to frequently happen here on LO)?
In wanting a balanced force, I would probably go with one or two units of archers, a solid line of spearmen consisting of two units of 16, and some Silver Helms, of course. Then I would select Dragon Princes, Shadow Warriors, and a Chariot or two for my Special units, and round out the army with a unit of Phoenix Guard (to be different...everyone always seems to go with either RBT's, or eagles). For my heroes, I was going to go with one Prince/Commander on an Elven Steed, and two Mages, one with buffering spells/defence in mind, and the other being offensive. So I'm asking for input, and the real deal on why some units in HE armies are so lauded, and others are completely ripped on.
I may be willing to go slightly Cavalry heavier than I normally would, mostly because when I start my Lizardmen after this, they will be mostly infantry, and as I said, I like doing armies with different flavours. The thing is, I just don't want my army to be a carbon copy of everyone else's HE army full of cavalry, mages, and RBT's. Can a balanced HE army really work?
Thanks for reading.
Yes a balanced army can work and it is the style I am most acustomed to for High Elves.
The reason people rave about some units and rip other units, is because some absolutely rock and some suck. Seaguard are a really bad choice, and archers are nothing spectacular, on the other hand Swordmasters are excellent as are bolt throwers and eagles. Doesn't mean you can't have a balanced list though.
I would suggest only taking one unit of archers, they are ok but not worth spending nearly 250 points on (which 2 units would cost you).There is a reason for that too, Phoenix guard are overpriced and many players say they are not worth the points they cost. The rare slots of a HE army are highly competative, its very hard for people to move away from bolt throwers and eagles because both of those are superb while the other choices are nothing special. Swordmasters will do the same job as phoenix guard except they will do it better and cost less points, they are a great option.and round out the army with a unit of Phoenix Guard (to be different...everyone always seems to go with either RBT's, or eagles)
A nice commander combo is on an eagle, with heavy armour, enchanted shield, reaver bow and lance. Hits hard in shooting and combat, moves very fast, decent save, can do everything like march blocking and hunting and do it better than a normal eagle, doesn't take a rare slot, and can start shooting ranks out of your opponent. Then in 2k you will have a spare rare slot (besides bolt throwers) for other things, white lions seem to be better than PG.
In 3k I usually only have 3 smallish units of cavalry, so a balanced kinda list does work though it is probably a bit harder than the cavalry one. Banner of sorcery is great to boost your magic, I stick it in dragon princes.
Hope that helps.
If you're certain about taking no RBTs or Eagles, I advise to take White Lions instead of Phoenix Guard.
As strewart said, the PG are overpriced. The White Lions not and they look cool.
But aside from them, I'd also take 1 RBT. There the only artillery available and they are fantastic. You wanted a versatile army, RBTs add seriously to the versatility.
And lizzies are not the aggresive fast plague the 'Nids are. There we've got the Beastmen for. Lizzies are quite versatile themselves: tough and steady core infantry, cheap skirmishing support troops, a large choice of fast hard-hitting monsters and potent magic.
And their culture is strict organised and orderly. Nothing like the 'Nids.
i have a unit of pheonix guard and i do use them, but only in larger games and i never take them in defference to swordmasters,
Spearmen rock, 16 attacks (2 for champion) on the defensive is great, my spearmen have driven off down most things.
Archers i usually only bring one they arent the best unit in the world
Silverhelms, they are good but only if used properly (never ever charge a unit of orc boys from the front its painful)
Bolt throwers, write this out a thousand times
always take bolt throwers
always take bolt throwers
eagles are great, for impeding marches and taking out war machines.
check the high elf tactica in the high elf section il will give you lots of helpful advice
WELL SAID, NO MORE SQUATS THEY ARE DEAD GET OVER ITOriginally Posted by artificer
Thanks for your input, everyone.
Araith, I know Lizardmen and Tyranids share few similarities, especially in their playstyles, but what I meant was I did not want to be painting two armies full of teeth, claws, and other beastly features at the same time. I'll do my HE along with my Tyranids, then maybe go back to fleshing out my Eldar once I move onto Lizardmen.
I think my plans right now are to buy two new HE Battalions, which will give me 40 Spearmen, 16 Silver Helms, 40 Archers (too many, but gives me options if I want to try heavy shooty lists sometime), and 2 RBTs. After that, I'm going to add 2 Heros and 3 Mages (I know I can't field them all in one game, but it gives me options). Struggling with what I'm going to mount my Prince on, whether it is a simple Elven steed, an eagle, or even a Griffon. I may also mount one of the mages, but I'm undecided on that.
To round out the force, I'll add 12 Shadow warriors, a unit of 8 Dragon Princes, a couple eagles, 2 Chariots, and maybe some more Silver helms or Spearmen. I MUST have at least one unit of 10 Phoenix Guard, even if I only use them in larger games. I hate the Swordmaster models and love the look of the PG, so that clinches it for me. That should give me enough units for around 3000 points or more, I think, plus it gives me enough to change up army lists quite a bit for 2000 point games. Any input?
P.S. One quick question (which may be silly; not sure): can mounted heroes get "blown off" their mounts? In other words, if a mount adds one or more wounds to your hero, and if the hero is down to only one wound, does he lose his mount and have to go on foot? I'm just wondering if I have to have "on-foot" models of my mounted heroes on hand incase they are reduced to one wound. This problem dawned on me when I saw the new Valten model, who comes both mounted and on foot.
Last edited by Houston; May 13th, 2005 at 19:05.
You cannot target Elven Steeds separately.
One can target either the rider or the monstrous mount (Eagle, Griffon, Dragon) in close combat, and shooting is randomized. So, you can kill the rider or the monster (in the first case, the monster might go nuts, the latter forces the rider to fight on foot)
Use Light, Beasts, Metal instead of Heavens
NecroLords: Use at least one Death Mage
Brets: Use Peasants&Damsels
Skaven: Don't use Skryre SAD
If you intend on using PG, use a large unit of them. Fear is only usefull in 2 ways:
- cancelling enemy fear
- let enemy autobreak if they loose combat while outnumbered. For the outnumbering part you need a large unit.
You forgot the 3rd way, if the enemy fail their fear test they need 6's to hit in combat. Regardless of unit strength or circumstance this is a very useful aspect of fear...Originally Posted by Araith